Should workers be forced to join a union?

The title is self-explanatory: Should workers be forced to join a union?

 

Yep, if they are going to participate in the higher wages and benefits the unions obtain for them. Otherwise, it's called THEFT.

 

How is it not theft when someone is forced to pay a union that they do not support to bargain on their behalf?

 

I've explained that already. The idea is - no tickee, no washee. Nobody is forced to pay a union. They can always work for another employer.

 

Simple answer, NO!

 

Yes, for many people are too dumb to know what is good for workers as a whole. Unions are needed more today than ever, for the economic elites are steadily hollowing out America, being a parasite on our markets, sucking the life blood from America.

Unions should be like seat belts. We legislated to try to protect the lives of the stupid, and this is no different, except it protects the lives of all workers.


It is the only thing that will address the hollowing out of America, with the service sector the main source of jobs, and with the service sector always low paying. We cannot afford a service sector that makes the workers draw welfare, so the taxpayers are subsidizing businesses.

Of course, you would also have to clean unions up, and make them more like you see in Germany. As politicians get infected with greed, as ceos get infected with greed, the heads of unions are no different. So, you have to clean up unions, to where they actually represent the workers, and work constructively with business, and to put a halt to the greed that is afflicting corporations, causing America to be hollowed out by parasitic behavior.

 

The problem is that the union often speaks for all of its members. If you disagree with what your Union is doing, if you don't want to strike or risk your job because of what your union is doing, you shouldn't have to.

 

Is there no such thing as a closed shop in the US these days?

 

They exist, but they are banned in a number of states (24, IIRC).

 

The economic elites are the ones who say 'people are too dumb to know is good for them' so they should be forced to join a union.





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I don't mean to challenge your supreme wisdom, sir - but might I at least create a competing union? The one we have here is a joke, which is why over half the workforce refuses to join regardless of the annual "join the union!" Session they force us to sit through.

Also, I would be most willing to not share in the benefits the union offers, so long as I can individually bargain with my employer. That's fine by me, that's all I wanted in the first place.

 

I don't want to participate in the higher wages and benefits the union obtains, I'm quite happy to bargain as an individual. This is all I wanted in the first place!

However, since the union's effectiveness is based on force and coercion, I cannot be allowed to negotiate with my own labor, it must be sacrificed to the collective regardless of my will. Otherwise the employer would simply hire a bunch of us and leave union workers without jobs.

You can't run a cartel without coercion on its members.

 

No especially when the union holds down the wages and advancement.

- - - Updated - - -

If it is a condition of employment they are. Should employees be docked wages to pay to support the political candidate the employer supports? They can always work for another employer.

 

How do you justify a private organization (union) controlling the conditions of employment?

In a no-right-to-work state, like California, the union is the de facto employer not the company itself. Any person who wishes to work must first agree to pay the union a monthly fee. If you stop paying the fee, you're fired.

The unions maintain this stranglehold by using the fees to elect and control politicians who then enact legislation protecting the forced collection of fees.

This is exactly how the mafia and other criminal organizations operate. Unfortunately, California and many other states are under this oppression. But hopefully in the future, more and more states will break free of this bondage.

 

I disagree unions have been highly persecuted in the south. Until recently almost every job I have had/heard has threatened termination if one is caught even talking about unions. Some still do even with new protection laws for the right to unionize. The few unions that survived railroads/trades/linemen are highly praised and the people work their ass off to get in them for a decent living. It's just ignorant to say people care about paying 100 bucks a month in dues to make 2x the salary. Maybe incredibly stupid people but every union worker knows why they pay it and glad to do it.

 

Often the higher wages and benefits do not apply to non-union workers and usually those so-called gains the union workers get come at a cost such as giving up holidays. So no they should not pay into a union they get nothing from in return.

 

How is this different from any other business mandating you supply your own tools, vehicle, etc? Most people seek out union work because it pays better, I would like to see the statistics of union workers that actually don't want to pay as this seems more of a red herring to slander unions instead of pointing out the dues are small compared the their larger salary and benefits that they have do to bargaining rights.

 

I'm not saying you should be forced by law to not join a union, I'm saying that you're entitled to whatever you and your employer negotiate for on a voluntary basis. Unions are coercive cartels when enforced by law, but perfectly acceptable when not. Start a workers cooperative.

 

You should be forced to join a union that creates a lazy work environment? Be forced to pay Union dues that goes to electing politicians that you would never give a dime to?

 

If so I will simply steal (preferable) or destroy union property to whatever value my yearly dues would have. Why not? They've done the same to me, it's retaliatory force.

 

I had to work in a union state already. Needed a welder. He sat on a bucket for three hours because he wouldn't pull his own leads thirty feet. Wasnt his job to pull his welding leads. 30 f ing feet. He wouldn't let me do it. His helper was helping someone else and would be for most of the day. I waited till lunch. Watch him get up and go for his lunch break. I wanted to finish my job and fly back home. I wasn't going to wait for some lazy a55 Union punk. I pulled his leads. Welded my box up myself wired it up and left the yard to fly back home to my wife and kids. Screw the lazy a55 unions and the slugs it creates.

 

As far as I'm concerned, he and his family should be living on the street, eating out of trash cans.

Everyone working for the government is like that here. You see unionized road workers standing around all the time. I don't mean every now and then, I mean quite literally all the time. Everyone sees and knows it. I have never seen them actually working, I guess this explains why it takes them 6 months to reseal a road.

They may as well be on welfare. In the private sector they couldn't justify their jobs for half a second.

 

Oh the union yard leader tried to give me sh1t about it. I just asked him why do you think it is that this company would fly me across six states, put me in a hotel, rent a car and pay me over time to do a job that others in this yard could do?
He knew the answer. Because I could get it done fast and even with all that cost still get it done cheaper. Screw these lazy unions.

 

The problem is they don't have to compete. Unions = cartels.

 

The union doesn't obtain them for the non-union workers. They obtain them for their members. Decisions have consequences when it comes to money just like everything else.