"Skeptics," Science, Spirituality and Religion

According to the logic of the so-called “skeptics,” spirituality and religion is craziness.

By that definition, the bulk of humanity is mentally ill, as the bulk of humanity has one or another form of spirituality. This leaves these people thinking that they are the only sane people out there.

If there is such a thing as narcissism, I can think of no more glaring narcissism than that.

Most “skeptics” are not even scientists. Real scientists are curious, and many are as curious about spirituality as they are about everything else. I am good friends with a distinguished scientist who openly talks about having had very real spiritual experiences. He has a vast body of academic knowledge, is very well-reasoned and uses scientific method to excellent standard. That has not prevented him from having a spiritual life.

Spiritual experiences happen all the time, at least they do in my life. I've had many experiences with less than a billionth chance of happening; and I am nowhere close to being the only one. Many people either forget the experiences that they have or deny them; but if you dig enough you will find in many cases that they have in fact had very real spiritual experiences. The problem is that they do not know how to make them parse with what they know about the world from science and mathematics. This results in many of them denying these experiences; and toward that effect any number of people have come up with any number of tricks.

Some want to say that experience is “anecdotal” and does not count as valid evidence. Others want to ascribe it to being on drugs, or being depressed or anorexic, or being otherwise non compos mentis during the time of the experience. Others still start going into beliefs such as that truth itself is relative. In all cases we find dishonesty. It is dishonesty that comes from dischordance between the logical implications of the experience and the worldview.

Is science wrong? No, it isn't. Materialist fundamentalism however is completely wrong. I seek an explanation that will be consistent with both scientific fact and the facts of my and other people's spiritual experiences; and I am continuing to look for this explanation in any number of paths.

 

Nice post! Its hilarious when we get the minority whose philosophically flawed material based theories have them trapped in a little box calling the majority insane, especially since they cannot provide one stitch of evidence in support of their opinions. They can never attain ascension.

 

Those who make the extrodinary claims, should provide the evidence. Got any evidence for gods yet?

 

OK....here is the thing....there is nothing wrong with being Spiritual nor is there anything wrong with being Religious.

However what IS wrong is when certain highly religious individuals attempt to to force their ideology upon others and especially when they deny science and mathematics.

An example?

Those who deny Evolution.

Now at this point ever since we mapped the entire Human Genome as well as mapped thousands of other species genomes we were able to find that even though each different species of life had millions upon millions of Viral DNA encoding within their Genomes there was ONLY ONE VIRAL DNA ENCODING that is one and the same in all species o life on Earth.

The ONLY way this is possible is if all life on Earth including Humans had EVOLVED from an original specis of a single celled organism.

Thus we were able to obtain a MATHEMATICAL PROOF upon a Molecular/Atomic Level that is 100% PROOF POSITIVE that Evolution is a FACT.

And never in HISTORY has anything ever obtained a Mathematical Proof and then later found out to be false.

So even though Evolution has been definitively proven.....some of these highly religious individuals REFUSE to accept the reality and do everything in their power to spread disinformation and fake pseudo-scientific data.

AA

 

Can you define what spirituality is and what differentiates spiritual experiences from other experiences? Are you sure that what you have experienced can't be explained by quirks in the human brain?

Personally the only experiences that I have had that I could describe as as "spiritual" is having feelings of warmth or awe in religious settings. I no longer believe that any kind of divine intervention is needed for people to have certain feelings.

 

Are you asking me or who?

I will answer if you want.

AA

 

I was asking the OP, but of course it is open for anyone to give their take on what it means.

 

Please forgive me my skepticism ... but when you say," I've had many experiences with less than a billionth chance of happening; and I am nowhere close to being the only one ..." I'm kind of left with the feeling that you may be a bit mistaken about the odds of something happening.

Just say'n.

PS - I'm referring to the OP.

 

Spirituality or having a Spiritual experience does not in any way denote that a GOD exists or that a person is experiencing some kind of divine intervention.

The word SPIRIT can refer to several things as of course it can refer to a supposedly existing soul as a aprt of a person that is in some way a part or connected to a GOD.

Or Spirit can simply refer to a persons state of mind as far as how they feel and how they are motivated or not.

There is I think a Spirituality within many people as it pertains to the ability to connect upon a very emotional level and understanding with either other people or places, events, animals and nature.

One can even say they had a Spiritual Awaking the first time....say that after living in a large city their whole lives where light pollution prevented them from seeing and understanding just how large our galaxy and universe really are when they first looked at the summer night sky when they were up in the mountains far away from the light pollution of the city.

AA

 

Some people believe that all of creation is tuned just for their needs, that there is a god that watches over them, takes a personal interest in each and everything they do and will judge them on each action. Some people think this creator listens to them when they pray and answers those prayers. Not only that but they think only their god is the one true god and any other god is false.
Just how much more narcacistic can you be!

Actually I can answer that, you can think that god wants you to drive a truck down a road and kill people because they do not worship your god.

Yes I think the rest of the world might well be insane, but I do have evidence!

 

Oh the world is without a doubt insane.

But some people are much more so then some others.

AA

 

I'll give you some examples.

In 1995 I had a beautiful relationship with a woman named Michelle, who had finished Harvard in three years and who was a poet. In 2000 I wanted to get it re-capitulated, so what happens but that I start corresponding with a woman named Michele, who had finished Caltech in three years, who was a poet, and who in 1995 had a similar kind of relationship with a man from Bulgaria (I am from Russia) whose last name was similar to my middle name. This event has a less than a billionth chance of happening.

Another example. My girlfriend woke up in the middle of the night saying that her ex-husband was talking to her in spirit. In the morning she decided to test this, so she said in her head, "All right Todd, if you have been talking to me in spirit then call me." 30 seconds later Todd called her and told her that he had been talking to her in spirit. You do the maths on this.

Further. I noticed that I was seeing master numbers on the clock - numbers such as 5:55 and 11:11. One day I decided to test this. I set four different clocks to four different times around the house and recorded every time that I looked at the clock. 1 in 10 of what I got was master numbers, when by chance it would be 1 in 60. Definitely not a quirk in the head, eh?

Continuing. I was once meditating, and I found in my meditation that there was an outpouring of sorrow in Argentina. I picked up a paper and read that someone famous died in Argentina, and that there was a vast outpouring of sorrow that the paper said was symptomatic of greater problems than that person's death.

It goes on and on and on. The number of times that I felt the presence of someone who was far away, only to have them tell me that they were thinking about me, was more than I can count. I've seen a psychic who was able to tell me, without me saying anything on the subject, that I was corresponding with a man in California who was a chauvinist and that I had been in a fight with my father on the previous day. A man with a PhD in Physics who was working at Hewlett Packard in California was able to tell my mother that my grandfather, who was in Virginia, had a pain in his arm. The scientist whom I have mentioned in the previous post had a friend who fell out of an airplane and should have by all measures been dead, but survived. I too had several episodes in my life when I should have by all standards and measures been dead.

So no, this has nothing to do with brain chemistry and everything to do with very real experiences. Sure, call it anecdotal if you want, but it wouldn't be anecdotal if it happened to you. I started out as an atheist. My experiences proved me wrong. I want to influence other people to honestly inquire into such matters and, hopefully, make good spiritual powers a part of their life.

 

OK...you first example the odds are far less than 1 in a Billion.

To get a rough calculation you need to get an estimate of the number of people online and then the number of those people who fit the parameters of your matching relations.

The second example has way far less of a chance than that as your girlfriend has a very detailed amount of information about her ex-husband and what he thinks of and when he does and this probability is less than 1 in 7000.

The clock experience is an example of how each person has an internal clock mentally and although consciously you are not aware of the time...subconsciously you are COMPLETELY AWARE of what time each clock is at and thus your subconscious urges you to chose the right time to look at the clocks thus probability in this case is actually 1 chance in 1.

AA

 

However, it's okay when certain authoritarian control freaks (read: atheists) try to force their beliefs on others, isn't it? Then they lie about who allegedly "denies science and mathematics". It's high time for atheists to stop playing the victim card and start telling the truth. They have been perpetuating the myth that people of faith "deny science" since the Scopes trial, in itself nothing but a publicity stunt. The reality is that some of the greatest scientists in history have been Christians and Jews.

 

I can certainly agree on the body clock, I have never had an alarm clock and can wake myself up to the minute. Never fails. It just makes me think how incredible the human mind is.

Ever had that feeling that someone is watching you, and you turn around to see someone is staring at you. Comes from our days when we were a tasty meal for predators, I do not know the exact science behind it but it is something to do with heightened senses.

Never ceases to amaze me how incredible the world is, just don't feel the need to put things I do not fully understand down to the supernatural.

 

No it is not alright and there is at least one fellow atheist on this site who drives me mad with his fundamentalism and trying to tell others what they should think.

 

I agree.

Reality is far more interesting and wondrous than most people could imagine and you don't need religion to see this.

AA

 

"Fundamentalism"? I know what I mean when I say that, what do you mean?

 

Many religious individuals do not in any way deny the realities that science and mathematics describe as it is those individuals who are what are known as Religious Zealots who deny such obvious and detailed realities.

I would have to say although I am not an atheist that atheists in general simply get tired of those religious zealots who attempt to force their ideology upon just about every aspect of life as they attempt to portray their crusade as protecting everything from marriage to family values and even attempt such idiocies as trying to get legislators to pass laws that would allow complete falsehoods taught in schools like their now completely rejected by even the Vatican attempt to get the idiocy of Intelligent Design books such as Of Pandas and People used as a textbook.

As I said there is no problem with people being religious or having faith. Th problem only exists when some people attempt to force their religious ideology upon others.

The teaching of science and mathematics is not the teaching of an ideology.

It is the teaching of how to use these tools to better understand reality.

AA

 

I am not a religious zealot but the religious in general simply get tired of those atheistic zealots who attempt to force their ideology upon just about every aspect of life as they attempt to portray their crusade as protecting everything from freedom to science and even attempt such idiocies as suing the 9/11 museum for displaying a piece of the building structure because it looks like a cross, trying to get 100 year old grave markers removed, history erased, or city seals changed (at huge taxpayer expense) because it looks like it might be a Bible.

 

Well I personally have never seen that happened however I can understand why atheists would be upset in how in some states that have very religious populations state funds were used to erect, build and place religious statues and reliefs within and upon public buildings like courthouses as that is simply not something that should be done.

Plus since Satanism is an officially recognized religion how would say Christian's feel if a statue or relief of Lucifer was built and placed on or within say a courthouse?

And THAT is why religious icons should NEVER be placed or allowed in public buildings.

AA

 

Playing the victim card again. I get tired of atheists bringing frivolous lawsuits they almost never win that cost the taxpayers money. You never hear about those. Who do I see about that?

You people are your own worst enemy.

There was actually a satanic mass in the Oklahoma City Civic center. Not a word from the atheists. The only religion they appear to be against is Christianity, you see it here every day. It's been over 24 hours since the massacre in Nice, I am surprised one of our esteemed posters (who shall remain nameless) hasn't found a way to blame it on Christianity.

 

Well even Atheists are kind of spiritual in a way and I never really denied claims of other things going on however these lack scientific accountability so to me must be not considered at this time. Also its not Spirituality I find distasteful its religion, which has to use mental conditioning often starting young to gain the traction it needs to spread so that is a mental illness and a disease. Then the ,lets be blunt, coercion and threats needed to keep everyone in line from the threat of damnation and hellfire to actual killing people over the matter don't believe me go to Saudi Arabia and openly espouse Atheism and see how long your not flogged and likely imprisoned if not killed by some maniac, And the Amish will just shun you and if a child that is just cruel to.

So no, give me honest materialist science any day its done far more to better the world.

 

You don't even know what "religion" is, it's just the catch all for the boogeymen that hide under your bed. There are free dictionaries on the internet, look it up.

There is no comparison between Islam and any other religion, Islam as you know it is a totalitarian movement that you have been conned into thinking is a religion (kind of like the Universal Life Church). It is no different from socialism, communion, or any of the other "isms" that some of you think are just peachy. Totalitarianism.

And I have lived around the Amish, have you?

 

I'd call spirituality and religion irrational, and leave it at that.