Solar Arrays can supply U.S. with all Electrical Needs.

I consider myself to be PROGRESSIVE and I was SHOCKED to be disparaged as being such upon another topic by a few self proclaimed Right-wing Conservatives that immediately dubbed me a BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL which for those who know me understand is THE LAST THING I AM!!!

I TRIED to explain to them that a person who is PROGRESSIVE is simply a person who supports using a variety of techniques to BENEFIT MANKIND.

Unfortunately these METAL MIDGETS used the words progressive and liberal the same way and believed they meant the same thing.

As I am Fiscally Conservative and Socially Liberal and an Massachusetts Independent who is MODERATE I have voted for who I thought was the BEST CANDIDATE....as I have voted for Reagan and I have voted for Clinton.

I also hold multiple degrees and even though I am not religious I am well read in a variety of Religions Texts and books such as the Bible, Talmud, Tanakh and Torah and Koran...forgive that spelling.

I am also completely aware and educated in EXACTLY how the Roman Christian Biblical Canon CREATED both the Old and New Testaments and how the Torah came from the Tanakh and how that came from ancient Hebrew Stone Carvings.

So when a few Ultra-Right Wing Members here attacked me for being..A BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL and an ATHEIST...which I am not either as I am AGNOSTIC....just because I stated I am PROGRESSIVE....I had to laugh.

For some reason it seems that some Republicans HAVE LOST THEIR MINDS....as I remember the days when being REPUBLICAN was all about creating an environment in the U.S. that would allow both large and small businesses to GROW and thus such growth meant more JOBS and better pay and a better economy.

Being Republican WAS NOT ABOUT....Abortion, Prayer in School, Protesting Evolution, Attempting to circumvent Constitutional Law buy attempting to pass Laws that allowed the CHRISTIAN RELIGION to exist at the forefront of Government.

But what I find both curious and idiotic at the same time is that these specific Republican's seem to be able to unscrew their heads from their body and support issues that have NOTHING to do with being a Republican but instead are all about a AMERICAN CORPORATE AGENDA that supports all issues specific to CONSUMER GROWTH IN BOTH NUMBER AND GREATER UTILITY DEPENDENCY.

I have studied this a GREAT DEAL and if a member thinks about it why does CORPORATE AMERICA desire the existence and growth in numbers of such Republican's of this nature being highly religious and conservative???

The ANSWER is SIMPLE.

Think about this....what does trying to outlaw Abortion....attempting to allow Prayer in Schools....allowing Christian Specific statues and reliefs in State and Federal Buildings....doing everything possible to stop the education of children in BIRTH CONTROL METHODS and MORNING AFTER AND PLAN B.....attempting to not only HOLD BACK SOLAR, FUSION, WIND, GEOTHERMAL AND OTHER GREEN ENERGY GENERATION TECHNOLOGY....attempt to HOLD BACK DEVELOPMENT and hold back funding and tax breaks of either people or companies that either are desiring or have purchased a HYBRID OR ELECTRIC CAR....or are a company building them and developing better cars.....attempting everything and anything including supporting the election of specific Presidential Candidates that will elect EXTREMELY RELIGIOUS AND CONSERVATIVE U.S. Supreme Court Judges.....and very quietly give funds to Pro-Life Groups and Activists who protest Planned Parenthood Clinics....and support groups that do NOT want Birth Control and Morning After and Plan B....covered under National Healthcare...etc....etc.

EVERYTHING I just posted that Corporate America supports has the END RESULT of U.S. POPULATION GROWTH!!!!!

Corporations and Corporate Business Ideology is specific to having a large and as quick of a population growth as possible and anything that would interfere with such population growth is considered THE ENEMY!!!!

Faster and Greater Population Growth means more people to sell to thus more consumers and faster growth.

The list of things Corporate America supports and thus the opposite it is against basically COMPRISES THE ENTIRE CONSERVATIVE AGENDA....and add to this advocating a high level of Military Spending....somehow being able to get away not paying for a new ELECTRICAL GRID which is old and needs at least $1 Trillion in upgrades as well getting away with holding back new tech. that would make the Internal Combustion Engine an ANTIQUE.....is CRIMINAL.

I myself have watched and been aware of many Solar Companies that were SWALLOWED WHOLE and bought out by MYSTERY CORPS. that come out of nowhere overnight and disappear just as fast after throwing around MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to buy out any Solar Tech. or New Electric Motor and Battery that would be feasible.

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

If you think about it all a person would have to do is fill their tank with DISTILLED WATER....then H2O would have an electric charge run through it to produce Hydrogen and Oxygen Gases.

AboveAlpha

 

In southern California there has been suburban sprawl into the desert area.
And of course they need their AC's in the summer.
Imagine if all those roof tops seen on satellite view were not naked but, with solar panels.
The costs of adding solar panels to a tract home at the time of construction is 1/10 that of an ad on by an individual.
California should have changed building codes decades ago to require solar panels on new tract development.

The failure by government to require conservation efforts by such construction firms is the reason why I refuse to conserve.
The State says we are running short, I gotta conserve, then puts more consumers on the same tit.

I say use as much infrastructure as you can afford until the other half is required to conserve too.



Moi
BTW I have an automatic, Natural Gas power generator connected to my home. Consume, consume consume !

No ​

 

include the solar panels in the construction of new home so its cost is figured in with the original mortgage, that way it becomes cost effective...adding it on after the fact is difficult financial burden...

Make it part of the required building code for new construction with a/c units must be powered by solar energy....

 

Large scale solar power plants are just an inefficient use of land compared to nuclear plants which is what should be powering most of our electricity. Solar panels could be put on new homes though to supplement their power and depending on the location and how much electricity is actually used in some homes they could sell their power back.

The only solar power panels I support are the organic ones which are still in the early stages of development. Current solar panels require rare earth elements or elements like zinc which we get from massive strip mining operations or hydrometalurligical mining which uses toxic chemicals in their extraction process.

There is also the issue of transmitting the power. There is a reason that they have stations at regular intervals along the powergrid and that is to boost power to the lines and keep them consistent. You need localized power no matter what so nuclear is the best with solar and others as supplementary.

 

Pay individuals 1:1 or close to it for the energy they put back into the grid. If it's a good investment to build solar they'll do it themselves.

I've always wanted to build a small solar farm inland, but they pay you a comical amount so it wouldn't be worth the effort. As an individual it's definitely worth it, my parents haven't paid electricity bills in years - but as far as being a proper energy producer goes, that privilege is monopolized in large state-preferred corporations. That's a real shame.

[hr][/hr]

Personally I'm a fan of distributed solar like that, as well as nuclear power. We have quite a significant portion of the world's uranium ore, and we're letting it just sit there because of nonsensical environmental concerns. I guess that means more for me when I go amateur prospecting, but ultimately it's a shame.

 

The problem is that you can't just turn coal plants on and off. It costs too much money. They work best at a steady rate 24/7.

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This post belongs in the conspiracy theories forum.....

- - - Updated - - -

Please show an economically viable energy storage system.

 

Do you want to drive around with a 5000 psi hydrogen tank in your trunk? In order for hydrogen fuel to be energy dense enough to compete with gasoline, it needs to be stored at around 5000 psi. I've seen what a 3000 psi tank of air does when ruptured, I can't imagine what would happen if that were 5000 PSI of hydrogen......

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090308134214AAW0S5X

 

Yes, but the electrical energy required to break down water into hydrogen and oxygen is more than the energy that we would acquire from the hydrogen (basic chemistry). You'd be better off with an electric car, and use the electricity directly.

 

The type of energy that the US has in great quantity is natural gas, and gas turbines start up fast and are the perfect complement to solar and wind.
Flywheels and Capacitors are being developed that can store large amounts of energy.
When the fuel is free, you can invest more in the capital equipment required.

 

germany's newest coal plants are designed to do compliment green energy and ramp up very quickly at times of peak demands....

 

answers from yahoo, wow theres a great source

The fear of hydrogen is exaggerated...it wouldnt even be considered by engineers if storage was a safety issue...hydrogen when released goes up, unlike gasoline which pools on the ground..

much of the fear of hydrogen still stems from the hindenburg disaster, and even there the only death of the 30+ that died was from burns, they others died from jumping from the craft, those that didnt jump another 30+, survived

 

The math is the same from other sources. We aren't talking about unpressurized hydrogen like the hindenberg. We are talking about 5000 PSI hydrogen (in most manufacturers (such as Hyunda) concept hydrogen cars). I wouldn't want a 5000 PSI air tank for a fuel tank, much less a 5000 PSI hydrogen tank. Hydrogen is irrelevant. It's the high pressure that scares me. Also, the ones that died jumping died because they chose a chance of survivial from the fall over no chance of survival from the fire, followed by a fall.....

The DOE has a requirement that practical hydrogen fueled cars would need to have a range of at least 300 miles.
The current wish by DOE is 10,000 PSI tanks.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/storage/
http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/storage/hydrogen_tanks.html

 

Yep, Germany has 100% backup of the power generated by solar/wind. Meaning, that they have to have enough fossil fuel power plant capacity (along with all of the costs, like personnel to run the plants, etc.) to totally supplant their solar/wind. Very inefficient (downright wasteful), in terms of price and resources.

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/green-energy-bust-in-germany

 

It takes a small amount of electricity to cause the chemical reaction necessary to break down water into Hydrogen and Oxygen gases.

The amount of electricity generated by the cars alternator is far more than what is required to do this so you might want to take a few Chemistry courses.

AboveAlpha

 

There are ways around this.

Fuel cells as alternative to internal combustion[edit]
Main articles: Fuel cell and Hydrogen vehicle
One of the main offerings of a hydrogen economy is that the fuel can replace the fossil fuel burned in internal combustion engines and turbines as the primary way to convert chemical energy into kinetic or electrical energy; hereby eliminating greenhouse gas emissions and pollution from that engine. Although hydrogen can be used in conventional internal combustion engines, fuel cells, being electrochemical, have a theoretical efficiency advantage over heat engines. Fuel cells are more expensive to produce than common internal combustion engines.

Some types of fuel cells work with hydrocarbon fuels,[56] while all can be operated on pure hydrogen. In the event that fuel cells become price-competitive with internal combustion engines and turbines, large gas-fired power plants could adopt this technology.

Hydrogen gas must be distinguished as "technical-grade" (five times pure), which is suitable for applications such as fuel cells, and "commercial-grade", which has carbon- and sulfur-containing impurities, but which can be produced by the much cheaper steam-reformation process. Fuel cells require high-purity hydrogen because the impurities would quickly degrade the life of the fuel cell stack.

Much of the interest in the hydrogen economy concept is focused on the use of fuel cells to power electric cars. Current Hydrogen fuel cells suffer from a low power-to-weight ratio.[57] Fuel cells are much more efficient than internal combustion engines, and produce no harmful emissions. If a practical method of hydrogen storage is introduced, and fuel cells become cheaper, they can be economically viable to power hybrid fuel cell/battery vehicles, or purely fuel cell-driven ones. The economic viability of fuel cell powered vehicles will improve as the hydrocarbon fuels used in internal combustion engines become more expensive, because of the depletion of easily accessible reserves or economic accounting of environmental impact through such measures as carbon taxes.

Other fuel cell technologies based on the exchange of metal ions (e.g. zinc-air fuel cells) are typically more efficient at energy conversion than hydrogen fuel cells, but the widespread use of any electrical energy → chemical energy → electrical energy systems would necessitate the production of electricity.

Since the 2003 State of the Union address, when the notion of the hydrogen economy came to national prominence, there has been a steady chorus of nay-sayers. Most recently, in 2013, Lux Research, Inc. issued a report that stated: "The dream of a hydrogen economy ... is no nearer." It concluded that "Capital cost, not hydrogen supply, will limit adoption to a mere 5.9 GW" by 2030, providing "a nearly insurmountable barrier to adoption, except in niche applications". Lux's analysis speculated that by 2030, PEM stationary market will reach $1 billion, while the vehicle market, including forklifts, will reach a total of $2 billion
High-pressure electrolysis[edit]
High pressure electrolysis is the electrolysis of water by decomposition of water (H2O) into oxygen (O2) and hydrogen gas (H2) by means of an electric current being passed through the water. The difference with a standard electrolyzer is the compressed hydrogen output around 120-200 Bar (1740-2900 psi).[32] By pressurising the hydrogen in the electrolyser, through a process known as chemical compression, the need for an external hydrogen compressor is eliminated,[4] the average energy consumption for internal compression is around 3

LINK....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_economy

There are MANY ways to make this practical.

Unfortunately the both Republican and Democrat Politicians who's reelection war chests are fed by large Oil and other Fossil Fuel Energy Corps are doing everything they can to prevent such tech. to ever see the light of day.

If a person thinks about it back when MICROWAVE OVENS first came on the market the company's that sold Toaster Ovens went out and advertised that a person who used a Microwave Oven was susceptible to receiving large doses of HARMFUL RADIATION and over time these companies advertisements inferred use of Microwave Ovens would cause a person using it to have their skin fall off, limbs fall off, have their internal organs have cancer along with all sorts of cancerous tumors growing all over a persons body and they even showed pictures of what Japanese people who survived the Atomic Bomb blasts looked like and showed pictures of small children with radiation burns and hair loss.

In a particular American Midwestern state where a large number of Toaster Ovens were manufactured and thus such plants represented many jobs the Senators and Congressmen from that state attempted to have both Senate and Congressional Committees start investigations into complete BOGUS REPORTS of Microwave Ovens being responsible for damage to the health of those using such ovens and such bogus issues as STERILITY, RADIATION SICKNESS, BLINDNESS, DNA DAMAGE, BRAIN DAMAGE, CANCER and even such stupidity as Teen Pregnancy, Lower Attendance to Church, Drug Use, Adultery, Crime and it was even proposed that among these things being caused by use of Microwave Ovens it was found out that a particularly famous TV EVANGELIST was paid by the large company manufacturing Toaster Ovens in that state to say that he received a MESSAGE FROM GOD while he prayed where GOD told him to do everything he could and get the message out that the use of DEADLY MICROWAVE RADIATION GENERATING OVENS would result in the radiation effecting the young brains of children because their skulls were less thick and dense than adults and would case these children to become SATAN WORSHIPERS!!! LOL!!!!!

The fact is even on this forum here I often read highly ridiculous and idiotic posts by both Ultra Left-Wing Liberals and Ultra Right-Wing Conservatives who have watched one episode too many of some MSN or FOX News editorial based opinion show as such shows are paid for by advertisement money coming from large corporations who have vested interests in the opinions they are directing such News Editorial Opinions to have by using their wallets.

Because of this there are a great number of members here who instead of concentrating their efforts upon finding out SOLUTIONS to our current ENERGY, POLLUTION, CO2, CH4 and GLOBAL WARMING issues....and instead of trying to help figure out what is or is not currently viable and what is or is not a direction we should take as far as using Government Funding to advance Companies both Privately and Publicly Owned in the fields of Clean Energy and Clean Transportation Research and Development.......such people when upon reading anything of this nature I and others here might post about will post replies in a manner akin to.......

IT CAN'T BE DONE!!!!

The same can be said when I happen to post and talk about things like having NRA, Police, Fire and Fish and Game sponsored FIRE ARM, BOW, KNIFE AND WEAPONS SAFETY COURSES run out of every city and town like the one in my town where when a kid turns 12 they come down with their Mom's and Dad's and take such a multiple day safety course that will teach both children and adults how to properly handle all weapons safely and teach kids and adults how to treat every firearm as if it was LOADED even if they knew it was not.

A kid in my state of Massachusetts can get their FID...Firearms Identification Card after completing such a course and because of this course not a single child, kid or teen under 18 HAS NEVER EVER DIED DUE TO A FIREARM ACCIDENT IN MY TOWN since this Weapons Safety Course has been going on.....EVER!!!

Still...when I might bring this up I get some extreme Left-Wing Liberals tell me after watching that woman's show on MSN and after hearing about all the CHILD DEATHS caused by accidental shootings that they will NEVER allow their children to EVER learn or handle or be taught about firearms or other weapons.

In the case of the Ultra Right-Wing Conservatives I attempt to ask them WHY they are so apposed to such things as ELECTRIC, SOLAR, HYDROGEN AND PROPANE GAS POWERED CARS and why they are so apposed to any CLEAN ENERGY GENERATION and their response is.....BECAUSE IT COSTS TOO MUCH AND IT CAN'T BE DONE AND RUSH AND SHAWN SAY THAT IT IS AGAINST JESUS!!!

When I ask them if I could show them that some of this tech. is available and practical RIGHT NOW....and ask them even if some isn't why they are so apposed to it some day being viable both tech wise and cost wise they tend to say....IT CAN'T BE DONE!!!

When I ask them WHY they think it can't be done they tend to say...BECAUSE RUSH AND FOX TOLD ME IT WILL NEVER WORK!!!!

The same basic thing happens when I confront Ultra-Left Wing Liberals about such issues as Firearm Safety and ask them why some take a position that has them hating all members of the U.S. Armed Forces and hate MEAT EATERS and hate LOGGING COMPANIES as if anything as long as trees are logged in a manner that leaves many available to re-seed the logged areas....TREES are a RENEWABLE RESOURCE and I have a woman down the street that is SO NUT'S she went around my town and placed GIANT ROAD WORKER ORANGE STICKERS that were 18 inches by 30 inches and went to every home on my street that burns wood in their fireplace or in a wood pellet stove and stuck these damn HUGE STICKERS on peoples doors or on people glass storm doors and these giant orange stickers said........

MURDERERS LIVE IN THIS HOUSE!!!

And then in smaller print under that idiocy on this giant orange sticker was a list of the number of specific plants and animals that as the sticker stated....WERE MURDERED....within the number of trees and area of forest that was supposedly stripped bare to allow a home owner to heat his home with wood for a year.

I read this damn thing and supposedly I MURDERED like 5000 Birds, 600 Squirrels, 6 Adult Black Bears and 26 Cubs, 3 Moose, 50 White Tailed Deer, 2 Fisher Cats, 60 Raccoon, 20 Woodchucks and a bunch of other animals were listed including numbers of Yellow and Blue Spotted Salamanders and she even had numbers of INSECTS listed and she had listed numbers of endangered plant species such as LADY SLIPPERS which are a type of ORCHID which exist in the forests and in my BACK YARD where I live.

I TRIED...and I mean.....TRIED....to talk to this woman after she was arrested by the Cops after for the 3rd time STICKING these giant stickers on everyone who burned wood as she went around in late November and any home she saw and smelled wood being burned within and such smoke coming from the chimney....she would stick one of these giant orange stickers on that door late at night....and it was a freakin' B!#@% to get the damn sticker completely off the door as I didn't notice the first time she stickered my door as I drive out my garage and I park on the far right side of my 3 car garage as I let SKY part in the spot next to the door to go inside the house as she shops and I keep my truck in the middle and my SUV on the far right and my 2010 Black Vette, my 2014 Porsche 911 Targa 4S and my in PERFECT MINT CONDITION with only 36,700 miles my Bright Blue Metallic paint with silver plastic composite lower bottom trimmed and Black Leather Interior and Black Convertible Top 1990 Ford Mustang GT a 302 Cubic Inch engine with Multiport Fuel Injection which I bought for my Dad as a present but I had a good year 2 years later and I bought him a new 1992 Vette and took back the Mustang.

Sorry.....I got caught up with cars and I keep the Mustang, the 911 and 2 other Antique vehicles....1969 Firebird and a DODGE CONVERTIBLE DAKOTA PICKUP TRUCK....of which only 32 are left in the WORLD....and just to let anyone even THINKING of looking to find me....these vehicles are not either under my name nor were they purchased under my name nor are they registered to me or a family member or any company that could be connected to my companies or family or friends.....I KEEP THEM IN THE BARN.

Sorry...anyways I TRIED talking to this LEFT-WING EXTREMIST LIBERAL...this woman and tried to explain to her that as a HUNTER I am extremely supportive and aware of WILDLIFE PROTECTION AND MANAGMENT and I tried to explain to her that in Massachusetts at least EVERY DIME TAKEN IN BY THE STATE from HUNTERS who must buy a Hunting and Fishing License or SPECIAL HUNTING PERMITS....etc....every dime is used to pay for WILDLIFE CONSERVATION AND MANAGMENT.

Talking to this woman...well...I might as well have been talking to a BRICK WALL as not only did she not either know or understand ANYTHING about Wildlife Conservation and Wildlife and Forest Management.....that the ONLY position she took was HUNTING,FISHING and KILLING AND EATING ANIMALS = MURDER.

And her other position as far as Forest and Plant Life was.....THOSE WHO CUT DOWN TREES SHOULD BE SHOT!!!

Talking to her about this issues was IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

Since she does not live far from me after I caught her IN THE ACT....of placing her new MURDERERS Lawn sign that she was sticking in my front yard grass at about 2 am in the morning....I called my buddy who is a Cop and lives about 2/10ths of a mile from my house on the same street so he jumped out of bed put on his bathrobe and drove his Police Car towards my home and pulled her over about 4 houses away from my home.

He had her drive to my home with him behind her as I asked my buddy NOT to arrest her but first give her a chance to come talk to me face to face and if she did not want to do it then arrest her. As she had been arrested a few times too many by this time she drove to my house and I asked her to come in where Sky made us coffee and I got the bottle of Brandy ready for myself and my Cop buddy.

I want members to know....I REALLY TRIED....to talk to this women and explain to her I could understand her desire to protect the Forests and Wildlife but that the way she was going about it if anything was DRIVING PEOPLE AWAY from her position as no one who is P!$$ED OFF tend to want to see eye to eye with the person P!$$!NG THEM OFF!! LOL!!!

As I tried to talk to her she all of a sudden went off into this RANT about how her SAVE THE PLANTS AND ANIMALS OF NEW ENGLAND political action group she belonged to was going to one day educate people into understanding why what people like I was doing by burning cut hardwood harvested from local forests WAS MURDER and that she wanted me to know she had closed her ears and mind to EVERYTHING I had TRIED to explain to her over the last 30 minutes that I had been talking to her and that SHE HOPED I WOULD BURN IN HELL just like the way I was torturing TREES by cutting them down and splitting them and then burning them as firewood and she told me someday she would be at my TRIAL as enlightened people like her would send me to LIFE IMPRISONMENT for my...."CRIMES"!!!!

At that point I looked at my buddy and said..."You heard what she just said?"

He said..."Every word."

I said...."I want her arrested for trespassing and I want a restraining order placed upon her!"

My buddy said...."Oh....not only that but I am going to make sure she is placed under PSYCHIATRIC EVALUATION!!"

She was placed under evaluation where she then grabbed another persons MEAL PLATE that had Meat Loaf on it and mashed it into that persons face and hit this guy over the head with the plastic plate which evidently is a hard enough plastic plate to cause a contusion and open up a bloody wound.

This woman's kid's picked her up after she spent a month in jail and 11 months of probation and moved her to Oregon as they sold her house and I hear she likes to walk deep into the forests up there and camp out.

My POINT here is that some people become so indoctrinated by others into believing a Political Position to the point they will no longer listen to ANYTHING OR ANYONE ELSE....as they have now become so inflexible they are a LOST CAUSE.

AboveAlpha

 

I've got 17 hrs of college chemistry, and 12 hrs of college physics. I taught high school chemistry.

It's basic conservation of energy.

Electrolysis of one mole of water into one mole of hydrogen and 1/2 mole of oxygen takes 253.83 kJ.

The recombination of one mole of hydrogen and 1/2 mole of water releases 237 kJ. There is a loss of energy there, without considering inefficiencies of burning using an actual hydrogen IC Engine. The energy that we could use from burning hydrogen is 93% of the energy required to break down water into that same amount of hydrogen. That's theoretical--the actual loss is much more due to how an internal combusion engine works.

A IC engine running hydrogen is about 35% efficent (meaning that about 35% of the energy of the fuel supplied to it results in usable power (and that includes running an alternator).

That means that of that 237 kj obtained by burning the hydrogen, only about 83 kj goes to power the wheels. Where are you getting the other 170 kJ to break down the water? That 83 kJ includes the energy provided to the alternator. The energy running the alternator isn't free. It takes away from the energy running the car wheels. Your idea is a perpetual motion machine, basically, and you are totally wrong.



http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/electrol.html
http://planetforlife.com/h2/h2vehicle.html

 

Nothing you said magically changes the energy density of hydrogen nor the fact that to get hydrogen compressed into usable amounts requires about 5000 PSI of a compressed highly flammable gas.

With fuel cells, maybe hydrogen becomes practical. With IC, it's not.

 

You are using a 35% figure.

I am using a 70% and OVER figure.

Thus this is the issue.

AboveAlpha

 

I am talking about Hydrogen Fuel Cells.

When I was discussing the kits a person could purchase to convert their gasoline burning vehicles to burn Hydrogen this was specific to filling up those cars at Hydrogen Fill Stations.

OBVIOUSLY....these KITS have nothing to do with Fuel Cells and these KITS do not allow a converted auto's owner to just fill the tank with Distilled Water.

I have NO IDEA why you would confuse the issue like this.

AboveAlpha

 

Even using your 70% figure (where did you get that for an IC hydrogen engine. A fuel cell hydrogen engine only gets about 60% efficiency), only 165 kJ goes to the wheels (and everything else including the alternator). Where do you get the other 88 kJ?

Let me teach you chemistry in simple terms. Basically speaking, whenever energy is changed in form, there is a loss of energy that cannot be used (enthalpy). Due to that, you cannot take a substance, break it down, and then form it back without an energy loss. Or in other words, you can't get enough energy from burning hydrogen (combining with oxygen to form water) to break down the water into hydrogen and oxygen. There is just that little bit of waste. Then, if you add other losses, like the inefficiency of engines, it just makes it worse.

Even if your hydrogen engine was 100% efficient, it couldn't work due to the above. Also, that's assuming that all of the energy goes back to the alternator, not that some of it is used to power a car forward as well.

We'll do your calculation with 100% efficiency. Ok, we've got 237 kJ of energy from burning hydrogen. Where do we get the extra 16 kJ just to break even.

Please study some chemistry before you argue such nonsense. All of this should be in Chemistry 102 at most colleges.

 

Hydrogen fuel stations would work, if you were foolhardy enough to drive around with a 5000 PSI tank of Hydrogen.

There are no commercially available fuel cells. The technology is just too expensive.

Also, your whole idea about distilled water is silly. It can't work, even with fuel cells. It's just basic chemistry.

 

I agree that currently the tech is not good enough to use distilled water but it is possible.

Using a filling station and a Hydrogen Cell will without a doubt work but I would think by 2040 using Distilled Water will be worked out.

AboveAlpha

 

I am not a climate change denier but I have been having a myriad of problems trying to come up with any system that works for me that I can afford.

Even finding a solar operated pump for my new (unfinished)fish pond is giving me problems. I can't seem to find a pump powerful enough for a decent looking waterfall without it being very cost prohibitive.

Even years ago I was contemplating using a wood heater for my home the amount of land needed just to grow my own wood for fuel was unreasonable.

I just want some kind of a system that works for me...not one that takes 10 years to pay for itself with no guarantees.

And when you consider all this desert land that is going to be taken up for solar panels...who's land is it?? and are you just going to take it from its rightful owners just because??? People should have rights to their own land.

 

I don't have enough information for it. But you mean you need enough facility.

 

It is possible to make hydrogen out of distilled water (actually it's better to use water with a solute, but again, that's basic chemistry). The problem is that requires more energy to break down water into hydrogen

It can't be. Chemically, it's impossible to take a tank of water, break it down with electrolysis, use the hydrogen in a 100% efficent fuel cell, and then use that energy to both power the car and break down more hydrogen. You have a loss of at least 16 kJ per mole of water broken down. This is due to chemistry, not technology, and there is NO way that will ever be fixed by technology.

You need to take CH 102 before you keep blathering on.