Solutions Oriented Approach to Restoring Meaningful Civil Discourse

Did you check out the link, or do you just want to call people bad names?

 

I think the level of discourse can be raised on this forum. It only takes an adequate number of moderators who are committed to that vision. I don't think PF has enough mods. to accomplish the task.

I like the 'dedicated serious posters only forum' idea. It too, would require committed moderators.

I'm pessimistic about society at large. I don't want to convince others that it's hopeless. I'd rather have them convince me it's not.

 

OMG....Making math relate to every day lives. What could be worse?lol By the way I will say again show me a curriculum that is used that is “liberal”
I once did something so liberal. When I was teaching math I was relating it to the stock market and two credit cards. I hope I’m not being accused of being too conservative

 

What is the long-term benefit of indoctrinating kids to be social justice warriors? Is there some hidden advantage to having businesses destroyed, fires in the streets, violent assaults?

Help me. I'm not seeing the good in this.

 

I noticed several people here using the term social justice warriors. Is this a fox term? I think caring about social justice is fantastic and the fact that they are warriors is great because they are fighting for something they believe in. Obviously social justice is a bad thing for you

 

The term 'social justice warrior' is like other leftist terms. They don't mean what they might literally appear to mean (I think you know that).

If you think riots and destruction are good. What's so good about that?

 

You are correct I read posts here that say that the alleged adherents of the political philosophy which they disagree with hate our country and are ruining it. Others here claim that our colleges are full of Marxism. That us not debating that is shooting down the other side by calling them Marxist without any proof that they are indeed Marxist.

 

You are making that claim as if it were a fact but it is your opinion in search of proof.

 

Responsible adults understand those things, the need for reason, the need to recognize facts that you don't like, the need to adjust your thinking to get the best results.
Kids raised without proper discipline don't think that way. They believe problems are caused by others, that they are right because it looks that way to them- and they don't listen to what does not allow that. Just like a kid throwing a tantrum, reason is not on the table- blackmail is; punish the people you want something from until you get your way- even if they give it to you just to shut you up. We have a large number of adult children now, and if you look at much of the behavior you can see the childish attitude. Yes, the extremes are on both sides. Just as some parents over react and do their job poorly when faced with rioting kids, so do some adults.

Still- it's people, individual people following fantasies of how things ought to be in their imagination, that are behind it. No law will change that- it's an educational process that will take a long time.

Good parents know they have a job to do. Not to be their kids friends, but to build their character and personality so that by the time they reach 18, they are strong enough to handle life on their own- and no longer need parenting. I think the number who achieve that today is perhaps 5%. The failures dominate the current situation.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head. We used to be able to discuss problems because FUNDAMENTALLY we all agreed. The discussion was over the best route to take to get us moving toward a common goal.
The fact is, we no longer fundamentally agree, nor do we seem to have common goals, sadly. How we got to the place where you think global warming can be reversed through the efforts of the Anglo-Europeans only, and I think global warming is caused by solar cycles is not even the question. The question is, where is an answer that can actually and practically be implemented? You can't change the 3/4 of earth population who defy climate control, and I can't control the sun. I would say the ability to discuss or not lies in mutual respect - I'm fine with you having your perspective and I certainly don't resent you for it. But if you are going to get angry with me for disagreeing and you're going to call me a name, then the discussion has just come to an abrupt halt.

This translates into issues that arise on this board around the Constitution, the laws of the land, the culture. How does someone who fundamentally believes in sovereignty discuss an issue like immigration with someone who does not believe in sovereignty? If we all could fundamentally agree that citizenship required a positive action, we could then discuss the policies and procedures that would allow us all to succeed. But when we don't fundamentally agree, when the opposing argument is for a borderless world with no citizenship, or all white people are bad, there is no longer a discussion to be had. What quality of conversation can one have with someone who shuts down discussions with memorized diatribes and name calling - racist, misogynistic, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, etc etc etc.

 

I think that makes a prime point. Regardless of differences, responsible, mature adults should be able to see and agree on common causes and values. Much of what we see today is a problem because we have a lot of adults now that are not responsible and mature. They still think like teenagers raised in a dysfunctional home.

 

"THE CABLE
U.S. Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News to Americans
For decades, a so-called anti-propaganda law prevented the U.S. government’s mammoth broadcasting arm from delivering programming to American audiences. But on July 2, that came silently to an end with the implementation of a new reform passed in January. The result: an unleashing of thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs ...
BY JOHN HUDSON | JULY 14, 2013, 7:06 PM."
http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/07/14...an-spreads-government-made-news-to-americans/



''he NDAA Legalizes The Use Of Propaganda On The US Public


Michael B Kelley



May. 21, 2012, 5:11 PM
The newest version of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) includes an amendment that would legalize the use of propaganda on the American public, reports Michael Hastings of BuzzFeed. The
amendment — proposed by Mac Thornberry (R-Texas) and Adam Smith (D-Wash.) and passed in the House last Friday afternoon — would effectively nullify the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which explicitly forbids information and psychological operations aimed at influencing U.S. public opinion.

Thornberry said that the current law "ties the hands of America's diplomatic officials, military, and others by inhibiting our ability to effectively communicate in a credible way," according to Buzzfeed.

The vote came two days after a federal judged ruled that an indefinite detention provision in the annual defense bill was unconstitutional."
http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5

 

Breaking the country into pieces won't work. You'll just have people from Piece1 flooding across the border to Piece2 because they like it better there, and then trying to change the politics.

Think about it - that is why we have different countries - but it doesn't stop migration and agitation.

 

One of our biggest problems has to do with hyper partisanship
The question that has perplexed all of us is what to do about it?
IMO the first step is to decide that that want and intend to individually do something about this
In that context it may be useful for this forum to somehow designate particular threads where partisanship is off limits.

Generally I think that non constructive partisanship emerges when we as individuals are primarily committed to winning and demonizing..., rather than learning and or trying to identify and communicate some aspect of an issue that is being overlooked.

If you are a liberal, how much effort have you exerted in trying to understand what made trump sufficiently popular to win the election. What are the genuine policy issues that caused so many voters to support president trump?

If you are a trump supporter, how much effort have you expended in trying to communicate why you continue to support trump despite the many criticisms of him that are not related to policy?

I think it is worthwhile for all of us to recognize that we are now not always right... that people who disagree with us may be seeing things that we have overlooked, and it might be worth some effort to try to figure out what those things we have overlooked are.

Maybe have members who want to participate explicitly sign on to these added rules

Most of the time I find that there is some kernel worth exploring
And using words like liar and dummy are not productive

The problem is that statistics can often be the basis of misrepresentation
Or at least a selective representation of a subjective truth

Isn’t the problem that we start with different biases and then look for “facts” that validate our bias

IMO the point of having rules is to ENCOURAGE respectful discussion
Not to look for minor infractions and then use that as an excuse to delete posts
If you add more rules and stricter enforcement (meaning arbitrary deletion)
IMO that is not going anywhere worthwhile
I mean, really, why take the trouble to write anything thoughtful when you have moderators who are just looking for an excuse to delete what you write... it’s not my idea of encouraging respectful discussion

 

Dead on!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-fox-news-and-the-right-wing-media-machine-made-my-dad-crazy

The Brainwashing of My Dad


I have watched this pattern play out with both friends and family over the last 20 years. Frankly, it reached a point where I couldn't stand to be around them anymore. I was a Republican for half my life and now I'm Independent. And I have plenty of problems with the left. But they right went right over a cliff. You can't reason with people who have been brainwashed. And they are a danger to the country and the world. The proof in the pudding: They elected trump.

What will break the back of this is playing out now. The right has been exposed for what it has become and an entirely new generation of voters are stepping up. Beyond that, propaganda sources like Fox are being sued for their intentional abuse of the public for profit. And how many people have been forced out of Fox now by public pressure?

Beyond that, trump will be exposed for the criminal and thug that he is. Eventually enough people will accept the truth, as happened with Nixon.

Consider that this doesn't come easily. They had to force German citizens to tour the Nazi death camps before they would accept what Hitler had done. Hopefully it won't get that bad here before people come to their senses.

 

LMAO, some of us actually have to eat in the here and now.

 

Why not just call them doodyheads....just as childish
I see your neo nazis as the opposite of social justice warriors. ....and much worse. Rioting and destruction are a bad way to show their frustration .....but I think the white spremacists are much worse. We just have different values

 

I haven't seen any social justice warriors driving cars into crowds or shooting up schools. Those guys were wearing MAGA hats!

 

We have more differences than just values.

We have different realities.

 

Funny that on a thread aimed toward improving civility, you would choose to slander me by attempting to align me with your imaginary Neo-Nazi boogyman.

 

Yup, because it involves people with no moral superiority to me deciding what justice is and isn't for me.
Attempting to place themselves in a position of authority over me, quite without my permission or any social mandate.

Social justice is pretty much a bad thing for everyone. I don't associate it with either justice or civil behaviour. Quite the opposite.

 

TC, with a philosophy of tolerance and equality, these people see fit to label all white males as nazis and white supremicists.
Where in the history of man has anything been more hypocritical?
Worse- they seen to have no idea that it is.