Syria doesnt want us there. Turkey doesnt want us there. Why should we be there?

Reduced to reflecting whats in the mirror now ? then projecting your failings onto others . Full on mind bending denial - complete with fallacious demonization reflex.

I hope you feel better .. Now that you got that out of your system ..

did you not want to continue to try and defend your humorous claim that 15 bipartisan in congress are engaged in a conspiracy
against Obama - in which these 15 in congress claim defacto that his Administration was heavily involved in Arming and supporting Al Qaeda ? - and how in reality this has no basis in fact ?

Please .. continue - this just gets more humorous and pathetic with each post.

 

Too Funny - You are the one who is engaging in conspiracy theory -- You have inferred that 15 bipartisan in congress are conspiring against Obama's legacy - with respect to the claim that he armed and supported Al Qaeda/ ISIS and other Islamist Jihadist groups of the same ilk in Syria.

That is quite the projection game you have going on ... Projection is a psychological defense mechanism in which individuals attribute characteristics they find unacceptable in themselves to another person. https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/projection

Come on Golem - don't be stingy with your thoughts - .. tell us more about how these members of congress decided to make up what you think is a grand lie.

 

So, you think it is okay to surrender northern Syria to the Turkish army and betray our allies who did all the fighting at great cost to eliminate the ISIS caliphate?

Yup, we certainly don't want mission creep and we can't allow our troops to get hurt.

 

I guess OPer didn't want to answer that question.

 

I'm tired of hearing this "but but, the poor Kurds....we've done them wrong". **** people, the Kurds aren't all the same and they live in Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey....and I'm sure there's a few sprinkled elsewhere. They were there getting slaughtered by Saddam for decades long before we went into Iraq because of Colin Powell's lying ass. Saddam genocided the hell out of them and nobody said a damn thing. Now we've armed them (probably not a good idea), they have anti-tank weapons, and U.S. taxpayer funded training too. It's time to let them do their thing and see how it shakes out. We can't be the world police. If you think otherwise, jump your ass on a plane and go join the Kurds...nobody is stopping you.

Some Kurd history:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/kurds/cron.html

 

This "we supported ISIS" thing is WAY overblown. We supported insurgents who were fighting Assad - who was on our "regime change" list since 2000, who was bombing his own civilian population, who had (and has) relationships with Iran and Russia.

These insurgent groups were not all that stable, changing their specific goals and forming internal alliances that included move weapons around.

I remember a House report being made by administration representatives during the Obama presidency. Representatives from both parties were questioning these guys who were effecting administration policy in Syria.

Senator McCain showed up - highly unusual. He managed to get speaking time and got seriously angry at the administration folks for not giving the insurgents far more fire power. He wanted them to give the insurgents hand operated ground to air missiles, etc. The response was that insurgents swapped material and allegiance and that ISIS insurgents absolutely would get any significant weapons no matter which group we gave them to. So, we were supplying light stuff along with transport assets.

McCain represented a significant Republican contingent that was HIGHLY in favor of giving aid to anyone interested in fighting against Assad.

 

1996-99 (from your cite)

Through years of setbacks (including events proving the US couldn't be trusted), Kurds were holding together, forming a region that was populated and governed by Kurds.

Then, we came marching through, providing the room for AQI and it's morphing into ISIS, finally handing the government to pro Iranian leadership which carried out civil war against all who weren't Shiite.

 

Mostly we were there because R's on congress wanted us there to take out ISIS. Remember?

 

Pathetic.

This is for you...

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...uld-we-be-there.562724/page-9#post-1071052704

 

I agree that running off the playground - doing nothing but trying to demonize the messenger because you cant handle the message - and screaming names and ad hom fallacy as you run away - is pathetic.

Fifteen Senators have claimed that the Obama have stated that the Obama Admin armed and supported Al Qaeda - and other radical Islamist Jihadists affiliated with Al Qaeda - and ISIS - in Syria ... and introduced a bill into both house and Senate - the intent of which prevent this from happening "Stop Arming Terrorist Act".

I realize that you find this message troubling - but that is no reason to demonize the messenger - inferring the messenger is stupid and pathetic .

Then - in a desperate attempt to avoid this "bad thought" - you liken these 15 Bipartisan in Congress to some 911 conspiracy theory ... desperately trying to pretend that these members of congress do not exist and that this bill does not exist.

I did not report you for this behavior - I do find this mind bending and irrational "thought avoidance response" curious however.

Since you will not address your conspiracy claim- perhaps you could shed some light on this thought avoidance response ?


And last - in response to your comment - even though you will not respond to mine - Obama arming Al Qaeda and other Islamist Jihadists - an action which led to the creation of the modern incarnation of ISIS - has a whole lot to do with the OP.

You claiming otherwise is just more denial of reality.

 

No. Neither the Kurds nor the Turks should pay for what Assad has done.

 

I agree that the Kurds should not pay. Turkey on the other hand was part and party .. along with El Saud, the US - and other Nations in the arming and support of the radical Islamist Jihadists insurgency. They should pay for this crime against humanity.

 

What? LOLOL.. Why the hell would KSA want to overthrow the Syrian government? Do you know how much absolute sh*t has gone down in Syria since 1947? Saudi even walked away when Syria destroyed TAPLINE and oil to Sidon. You don't get to come up with some cockamamie deflection.

Israel is the only one that's been insisting Assad go .. with cause I might add... since 1994.

 

You are the one that is the expert in cockamamie deflection ... stop projecting your issues onto others.

Saudi Arabia - being the Strict Sharia radical Islamist Extremists that they are -- hate "secularism" Just like their Al Qaeda spawn.

https://mideastshuffle.com/2014/10/04/biden-turks-saudis-uae-funded-and-armed-al-nusra-and-al-qaeda/

 

Secular Syria has been having coups and assassinations pretty much non stop since 1950..

Mideast shuffle? LOLOL Saudi Arabia is conservative but NOT radical.. You should make some effort to learn about the middle east.

 

Classic - in the previous post you spout off and project - "You don't get to come up with some cockamamie deflection" - and then all you can come up with in this post is cockamamie deflection .. Ad hom - trying to demonize the link.

This is just one of many links that can be found - you can even watch the video of Biden saying what he says as it is during questions after a speech he gave at Harvard.

Saudi Arabia is a strict sharia totalitarian nightmare - that you don't think this is "radical" speaks volumes.

Perhaps you are OK with stoning adulterers .. chopping off limbs for crimes such as stealing .. death sentence for adultery and apostasy and numerous other extremist laws. Those of us in the civilized world regard the above as radical.

 

Well, for 8 years Bush made the decision that our military didn't only have that purpose, but also had the purpose of designing and establishing whole new forms of government for societies that simply don't know how or why our system works.

During that time, our military formed the governments of Afg and Iraq.

In taking that direction, Bush removed this responsibility from Colin Powell, who ran our DoS at the time. Powell had a team working hard on how to form a successful government in these countries, and when he lost, Powell gave Rumsfeld his work and his people.

Rumsfeld threw that work (and the people) in the round file.


Given that history and the failure to form a DoS strong enough and with the support required to do this kind of work, it's no wonder that our military is responsible for WAY more than just conquest.

And, what we see IS the US military solution.

Now, we're seeing the president ignore ALL advice. So, every commitment that the US has made is subject to Trump calling up some foreign dictator and deciding to ignore all that has come before without further consideration of the issues or consequences and with no planning, coordination or communication steps.

NONE of our allies expected this whipsaw on the Kurds, nor do they know where Trump is going.

Even our own military got whipsawed.

 

would you explain a bit more what 'The Albatross' is in this context?

 

How many South Korea's can the taxpayers permanently bear on their shoulders?

Time to get out of there, too.

 

There is something more to this than Trump just waking up in the morning and pulling the rest of the Troops out of Syria. This would certainly not be the first time that we left our allies in in the lurch in the middle east. Daddy Bush dropped leaflets all over Iraq during the first war - telling the Shiite - who are the majority in Iraq - to rise up.

And this is exactly what the Shiite population did. Saddam's airspace was under a no fly zone and the Shiite were taking over.

Bush then lifted the no fly status of Saddam - who then wiped out the uprising with air power.

Syria is a complicated mess - Eventually the Kurds are going to have to rely on Assad for Security. We are not going to be there forever ..

What are we going to do - start a war with Turkey over the Kurds ? I don't think so. Turkey made the decision to go in despite our protests .. that much seems clear.

What are our options then 1) Stay there and help the Kurds fight Turkey in a minimal way 2) leave the troops there in some hideout out of range of the fighting - telling Turkey "don't bomb this area" - and watch from the sidelines 3) go to war with Turkey - 4) Pull the troops out ... what else ?

Complicating matters further - this is all going on in the region of Syria where Al Qaeda and ISIS still have a presence. The area that Assad has not retaken .. but is trying - with the aid of Russia - to retake.

 

No they didn't!

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...uld-we-be-there.562724/page-9#post-1071052704

And my response was not an ad-hominem. When I said "Pathetic" I am referring to your attempts at defending Trump by changing the subject. Not to you personally.

 

Not quite. It was General Norman Schwartzkoft who allowed the Iraqis to fly helicopters that led to them wiping out the Shia uprising. At the cease fire negotiations, the Iraqis complained that due to the destruction of many of the bridges in the country due to U.S. bombings they couldn't move around and requested permission to fly rotary winged aircraft (helicopters). Schwartzkoft said that sounded like a reasonable request and allowed it (much to his regret).

 

ISRAEL

 

Of course they did ..

https://gabbard.house.gov/news/StopArmingTerrorists

First off - I have not defended Trump - I have consistently stated we should not be in Syria - long before Trump came into the picture. The subject is Syria - and our support for ISIS and Al Qaeda has a whole lot to do with this issue. The justification given for staying in Syria is often "We need to fight ISIS" This justification is complete BS and Orwellian doublespeak ...

You did engage in Ad Hom ... trying to demonize me .. inferring I was stupid and pathetic. So far this - strawman - other ad hom fallacy and crying "No No No" has been your only response to the facts presented.

 

Of course there were Generals involved .. That does not change the fact that Bush was Commander and Chief at the time.