Texas school board bans confederate flag

you're about as gullible as they come

 

Why? Because I know black rednecks? Good luck with that whole gullible thing. That apparently seems to be the only argument you have left.

 

you have a fuzzy definition of redneck and it's based on political rhetoric, not reality

 

My definition of redneck is based on reality. Just because you can't conceive the idea of black rednecks doesn't mean they don't exist. I don'r know how things are in Mississippi or Louisiana but here in my little predominant redneck little town in Florida they being a redneck isn't racially exclusive. You might want to actually take a look at your definition of redneck since you seem to have been mostly exposed to the ignorant bigot variety(yes we have those here too). I'm sorry that you're not aware of the different types of rednecks but don't call into question my experience with them just because you didn't have the same chance.

 

what a joke, my definition is based on reality, yours is based on political rhetoric

 

Oh wow. Great come back. Obviously your intellect is far superior. Let me try. No your definition is based on political rhetoric! No wonder you like to use it, it's so easy and doesn't even require facts or an actual argument. God help you if you ever have to though. I'm not the one saying a group of people can't be a redneck just because of their skin color. That's about as retarded as saying liberals can't be christians. Do you have an actual agument or reason on why blacks can't be or are you just going to stick with the "rhetoric" comment?

 

These things helped to foster a deep mistrust in the southern states that eventually led to the Civil War.

 

it's cultural, rooted in africa

 

Back to topic.

Does that school district in Texas allow students to fly the mexican flag?

 

That doesn't explain why blacks can't be rednecks at all. That doesn't explain the ones that live in my town or wherever else they live. If you've never seen or met a black redneck that's fine but to say that their isn't any is just dishonest and actually insulting to them. Be mature enough to admit that you just simply made a mistake based on your experiences. And man I'm not saying this to demean or knock you either. We make mistakes. It happens. Just own it and learn something from it instead of trying to save face or push some preconceived notion on someone else that they know is factually incorrect. Believe me you'll garner more credibility and respect when you do such things.

 

Although slavery was legal in some states it was illegal in others. And if you look at the underlying reasons for that, you find part of the motivation behind the war.

Slavery was no doubt a major factor, and if anyone has doubts about that, here's a speech by Alexander H. Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy, that should put those doubts neatly to rest

Cornerstone Speech by Alexander H. Stephens

In this portion, it is crystal clear the central motivation behind the formation of Confederacy

There you have it from the horse's mouth.

 

Or, taken from another horse's mouth....

I am not now, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social or political equality of the white and black races. I am not now nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and the black races which will forever forbid the two races living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior, and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man.

Lincoln in his speech to Charleston, Illinois, 1858

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Or one might consider how those living at the time saw the issue.

"Union means so many millions a year lost to the South; secession means the loss of the same millions to the North. The love of money is the root of this as of many other evils....The quarrel between the North and South is, as it stands, solely a fiscal quarrel".... Charles Dickens in a London periodical in December 1861

"The contest is really for empire on the side of the North and for independence on that of the South....". ..... London Times of 7 Nov 1861

"Slavery is not the cause of the rebellion ....Slavery is the pretext on which the leaders of the rebellion rely, 'to fire the Southern Heart' and through which the greatest degree of unanimity can be produced....Mr. Calhoun, after finding that the South could not be brought into sufficient unanimity by a clamor about the tariff, selected slavery as the better subject for agitation"..... North American Review (Boston October 1862)

"They [the South] know that it is their import trade that draws from the people's pockets sixty or seventy millions of dollars per annum, in the shape of duties, to be expended mainly in the North, and in the protection and encouragement of Northern interests....These are the reasons why these people [the North] do not wish the South to secede from the Union." ..... New Orleans Daily Crescent 21 January 1861

"In one single blow our foreign commerce must be reduced to less than one-half what it now is. Our coastwise trade would pass into other hands. One-half of our shipping would lie idle at our wharves. We should lose our trade with the South, with all of its immense profits. Our manufactories would be in utter ruins. Let the South adopt the free-trade system, or that of a tariff for revenue, and these results would likely follow." .... Chicago Daily Times December 1860

"At once shut down every Southern port, destroy its commerce and bring utter ruin on the Confederate States." ..... NY Times 22 March 1861

"the mask has been thrown off and it is apparent that the people of the principal seceding states are now for commercial independence. They dream that the centres of traffic can be changed from Northern to Southern ports....by a revenue system verging on free trade...." .... Boston Transcript 18 March 1861

 

no it's not and show me a black redneck

 

Of course.

The idea that the north responded to southern break aways to free the slaves is a tender notion, and grossly erroneous. But the scope of complicity to keep slavery viable between northern and southern states is incomparable.

I get the feeling some folk have somehow embraced the concept that the north had just as much interest in keeping slavery going as the south

 

Great comeback!

I never said slavery was the sole factor for the secession of the southern states. However, it was a major factor and was a catalyst for the other issues that caused the rupture.

That said, with regards to Lincoln's comments. Despite Lincoln's remarks, he did not carry a single state in the Confederacy. Check this out:

United States presidential election, 1860

Here's the relevant quote:

South Carolina so distrusted Lincoln that they said that if he won the election, they would secede. And they made good on that promise. My point is that in spite of Mr. Lincolns words, the South didn't trust him, therefore although those words are indeed illuminating, with regards to the South's secession from the Union, they are irrelevant.

As to this stuff:

That was the opinion of a newspaper. To say that slavery was only a pretext is absurd. And I think we only need to look to the words of the Vice President of the Confederacy to demonstrate that.

But great post! Thanks for that!!!

 

It's intellectually shoddy to assume you're right about events that are so complex and happened so long ago.

In the words of southerne leaders right before the war, the war was ALL about slavery for the south.

See if you can reconcile your speculation (not fact) with their own words.

http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reasons.html

The rest of your post sounded like revisionist drivel, and I leave you with a thought from Lincoln which is very relevant to today's red states political climate.

 

there are black rednecks and there are white n***ers, I have known some of each.

 

then you should have no problem showing me one

 

The problem with that kind of thinking is that you have decided what people should act like.

The people I know who say there are good blacks and bad blacks simply like any people who act like white people.

 

What, you want me to go around town and interview people for you? Upload some pictures and videos from my phone so you can see? Why just so you can say they're not really rednecks even if they're behaving like one? Your problem is is that you don't want their to be any black rednecks because it doesn't fit with whatever agenda you have for them. And yeah it is insulting to say they can't be a redneck because of their color.

I even gave you a chance to man up and to admit your mistake but your so stuck in this political narrow mindset that you can't even admit that their's any. That's the rhetoric. I'm sorry but you just don't have anything to contribute in honest debate. At least I'm willing to change my opinion and to admit when I'm wrong on here. Instead you would rather say what a person can and can't be based on their color. Now that's either arrogance or ignorance.

 

That's the problem wih having such a narrow perception, everyone is supposed to be grouped in a specific way and they're not allowed to break the trend. Reality is much different though.

 

Here is what Texans had to say about slavery when they decided to secceed.

 

That's the problem wih having such a narrow perception, everyone is supposed to be grouped in a specific way and they're not allowed to break the trend. Reality is much different though.

 

is that what i said?

if there are black rednecks, you should be able to find one already on you tube or facebook

 

It is beyond ignorant to think a group of states would secede and go to war over doing something they were not prohibited from doing.

Yes, I have read the declarations from the 4 states. So what? While a nice snapshot, you can't ignore the primary issue, which was tariffs.

In Lincoln's own words......

"But what am I to do in the meantime with those men at Montgomery [meaning the Confederate constitutional convention]? Am I to let them go on... [a]nd open Charleston, etc., as ports of entry, with their ten-percent tariff. What, then, would become of my tariff?" ~ Lincoln to Colonel John B. Baldwin, deputized by the Virginian Commissioners to determine whether Lincoln would use force, April 4, 1861.

I will agree that slavery was one of the reasons for secession, but actually the bigger gripe as far as slavery goes was of states not enforcing fugitive slave laws. In any case, it is a far stretch to associate a cause for secession as being a cause for war. These are two very different things.

Also, since you brought up the Causes for Secession documents, you may want to read the one from the Cherokee Nation.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/cherokeecauses.htm