I have told you before that I am a Christian.. Revelation tell us that these things will happen within a generation .. which throughout the Bible is 40 years.
After reading all this..... Yep! I still think that this Topic would have been better if it had been the BREAST RELELATION! I have never enjoyed Fairly Tales. AboveAlpha
Many things did happen immediately. The 1000 year reign of Jesus began when the Holy Comforter of the New Testament appeared in 54AD, for instance: Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones (of Universal Christian authority) and they, (the 144,000 monks of Catholic monasticism: [Rev14:4]), sat upon them (when Christianity was mandated as the ONLY legal religion in the Empire, in 380AD), and (theocratic) judgment was given unto them (in the days of Catholic Monasticism): and I saw the souls, (the spirit-like psyches), of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, (Old Testament and New), and which had not worshipped (by participation in the paganistic practices and sexual excesses fueling) the (sixth head of the) beast (of the Roman economic system which had been based upon selfish self-interest and slavery), neither his image (i.e.; on his coinage), neither had received his mark (of ledger accounts recorded) upon their foreheads, or in (wages in) their hands (as these monks lived in communes with one another throughout the empire); and they lived (as if angels in the minds of Christians who have followed, these beheaded saints and martyrs, in the memories of congregations who worshiped in churches built upon the bones of their remains)... .... and (they) reigned (in Monasticism) with Christ a thousand years, (from 54 AD, when the gospels appeared as the Holy Comforter, until 1054 AD with the first Schism of Greek Orthodoxy).
Its possible that the apocalyptic writing were ancient and Jewish which only means the Christians lied,,
Well, Jewish eschatology is quite different from Christian ideas and Revelation says it is the Revelation of Jesus Christ and that there is NO Temple. Having said that.. many scholars think that Revelation was written in such antique language that it must be far older than the gospels.
The Temple did not exist in an actual building. It was a "tabernacle," one that was with men, the Christians themselves: Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
The Book of Revelation and what it details is a copy of just about every END OF THE WORLD story in every religion. Revelation appears to have multiple authors one being John of Patmos but Revelation is a rather silly story that even the Roman Imperial Biblical Canon thought was not something that should ever be included in the New Testament and Revelation was refused and rejected entry in the Bible over 7 Times. AboveAlpha
If the writer, or one of the writers was John, a Jew, perhaps much of it is from the Tanakh. The imagery is much the same as in Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel. There is a theory that the writer, using a symbolism that would not be recognised by Romans is referring to them and condemning their actions in the past 2 centuries. Whose fault was it that the Romans were in control of Palestine? From almost the time that the Jews had fought and won against the Seleucids, and created an independent State. They were at each others throats. There were many problems, jealousies and desires to be king, or high priest. Pharisees accepted a certain amount of Hellenism, the Sadducees were violently against it. Sides struggling for power. The 'free' Hasmonean kingdom was only free from the outside world, it was in chains to itself. Worse still parts of the Roman Republic around were becoming involved. We know that Ptolomey became involved and indeed in 161 - early on - the Roman Republic was asked for help to remove the Greeks from Judea. We have documents that say one of the early leaders made treaties with outside powers. These can't be authenticated however. Were these treaties ever called upon? We know one outside power intervened upon request. It however returned 'home' when its purpose was fulfilled. It was surely inevitable that Rome would eventually intervene, and they did. Ooops. Sorry I'm rambling.
Yeah,... That was true during the whole 1000 year reign of Monasticism, as the whole of Christianity was inside the 1500 mile cube-shaped New Jerusalem,... where they "saw no temple therein!" This was a giant sukkot which these "Jews" lived inside, metaphysically, as they had when in the Sinai desert before returning to Israel.
Perhaps you atheists will be shown you are right. But the Jews have had interest in Revelation, which John merely extended further. The Jews are still attentive to its writings. The sudden and unexpected sacrifices at the Holocaust was the "cost," a blood sacrifice in 1942-1945, which demanded and implied the resurrection of Israel with Jerusalem as its capital in 1980. Rev. 11:11 And after (the Holocaust), three and an half days (of years, 1942-1945), the Spirit of life from God entered into them, (the House of Jacob and the House of Judah: [Rev 11:4]), and they stood upon their feet (in the land Promised); and great fear fell upon them (in Islam) which saw them, (the prophecy of the Fig Tree, blooming was fulfilled: [Matt 24:32). Rev. 11:12 And (the survivors), they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither (where all Nations can see). And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud (of history); and their enemies (especially in Palestinia) beheld them.
Dave...I have told you multiple times I am NOT an Atheist. I am an AGNOSTIC as anyone who follows the Scientific Method worth their salt would be. The Probability that a GOD exists advertized by the Bible is astronomically small but NOT ZERO% Because of this I will NEVER say that a GOD does not exist. HOWEVER.....any Probability that exists greater than 1 in 10^150th...is a STATISTICAL IMPOSSIBILITY. A GOD existing exactly as advertized in the Bible, Torah or Koran has a probability GREATER than 1 in 10^150th. HOWEVER....a GOD existing in a manner that is completely and totally beyond Human ability to understand and such a GOD woyuld NOT exists in any manner as advertized by the Bible, Torah or Koran has a Probability of Existence of 10^120th...thus NOT a Statistical Impossibility. I can tell you this....there most likely exists a Multiversal System as Quantum Mechanics shows us this and there is far more going on than people think or understand there is going on. AboveAlpha
No you weren't rambling.. they tend to forget that Vespasian arrived from Syria because there was a Jewish civil war.
If one does not "lift things written ages ago out of the Bible and find ways to make them fit over contemporary history," how else would one show the prophecy was fulfilled??? - - - Updated - - - Yes. They were using History and what scripture seemed to fit. What else ought people do about prophets, except to check them out?
They were commentators not fortune tellers... Most prophesy was after the fact.. and they walked the countryside talking about events and analyzing them like Fox News.
YOU and the scholars are right, since the revelation which the Jews used long before 32AD was exactly what John repeated inhis own Book of Revelation. However, John included comments which placed Jesus inside the passages, and the Jews, today, of course focus on those and criticize them as erroneous.
Revelations was chosen to be the last book of the Bible for a reason; it tied the Old Testament to the New, and provides the 'end piece' to Genesis, that is it's purpose, so yes, a lot of the stuff indeed references old testament theology. DUHHHHHH..., what a stupid claim to make that it is somehow 'invalid', for being what it is supposed to be. It's tied to Genesis, and Joshua, as well; it's tied to the Gospel of John, and John is the final 'word' re Christian theology.
It ties the OT to the NT by being at the end of the NT? Revelation tells you exactly what it is and what time period it is talking about...........
Both Revelations say the same things, except where John added his information and interjected ideas which identified Jesus as the messiah. Check the link at the end of this note below, and see what the Jewish Encyclopedia says: Jewish Origin. The last book in the New Testament canon, yet in fact one of the oldest; probably the only Judeao-Christian work which has survived the Paulinian transformation of the Church. The introductory verse betrays the complicated character of the whole work. It presents the book as a "Revelation which God gave . . . to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass," and at the same time as a revelation of Jesus Christ to "his servant John." The anti-Paulinian character of the letters to the seven churches and the anti-Roman character of the apocalyptic section have been a source of great embarrassment, especially to Protestant theologians, ever since the days of Luther; but the apocalypse has become especially important to Jewish students since it has been discovered by Vischer (see bibliography) that the main apocalypse actually belongs to Jewish apocalyptic literature. http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/vi...chatology#1223
The link I gave Margot below for the Jewish Encyclopedia agrees with you. The renewed Jewish interest in the Christian Revelation comes after their rabbi realized that John had copied what their own scribes had said way back, before Jesus. The encylopedia lists most of te same verse and shows where the Jews sourced their own ideas in this.
You are confusing style with substance. It was written to the seven CHURCHES that existed in the first century AD... in an ancient style.. It is a message of instruction and encouragement to those churches... The symbolism was easily understood by the people of the times. It was NOT written to Europeans or Americans or the Chinese two-three thousand years into the future. If you want to understand Revelation, study the history of the first century and the two previous centuries. John of Patmos would NOT have neglected the believers of the first century for people thousands of years in the future. The first chapter is very clear as to who the letter is written to and the time frame.
You've already established you know nothing about Christian theology and are just trolling. Trip somebody's flags who doesn't know you're full of it.
