The CAGW Handbook

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Nathan-D, Dec 29, 2020.

  1. Nathan-D

    Nathan-D Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    Below is a CAGW-skeptical handbook I recently made on Infogram if anyone is interested in reading it (or even using it in debates).

    [​IMG]
     
    Jack Hays likes this.
  2. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,716
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Nice effort, it would help if you provide LINKS to the sources you posted.

    Here is a nice chart based on ice core data:

    [​IMG]

    LINK

    =====

    c3headlines website is loaded with historical charts, LINK
     
  3. Nathan-D

    Nathan-D Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2018
    Messages:
    117
    Likes Received:
    48
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    I have provided sources, but links are gonna hard on an image. I wouldn't know how to do that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  4. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  5. Sunsettommy

    Sunsettommy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,716
    Likes Received:
    1,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You could attach the links to the number of the chart?
     
  6. gfm7175

    gfm7175 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    9,503
    Likes Received:
    4,833
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    bringiton likes this.
  7. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  8. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  10. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    bringiton likes this.
  11. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
  12. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Inconvenient Study: CO2 fertilization greening the earth
    is more CO2 in the air, and this is called CO2 fertilization. ... "We were able to tie the greening largely ... coal and wood for energy releases CO2 in to the air. The amount of CO2 in the air has been increasing since
     
  13. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,961
    Likes Received:
    21,269
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    deforestation is only a problem if we stop farming. the corn belt across the midwestern US is the most photosynthetically active place on earth, and the bulk of the rest of it occurs in the ocean (and that is lessening because of ocean pollution, with China as by far the leading culprit)

    I'm fully on board with reversing urbanization... not necessarily because of the environment, but if thats what it takes to get it done, sweet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  14. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Umm, NO! Farming DOES NOT REPLACE THE FANTASTICALLY INTRICATE ECO-SYSTEM OF CENTURIES OLD FORESTS THAT HAVE BEEN PUTTING OXYGEN AND REMOVING CO2 FROM THE ATMOSPHERE. No amounts of cornfields in the world replaces the millions of acres of rainforests destroyed throughout the world, much less prime forests in the USA destroyed for farming, housing and mining. And yeah, urbanization is another major factor in the pollution of the planet and climate change (industrial smoke stacks, water run off from tons of insectiside and such for all those suburban lawns, garbage dumps, etc.). This is in conjunction with ocean pollution....and yeah, we can demonized China NOW but that doesn't excuse our role, Europe's role, Africa and Asia's role over the years. It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  15. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Ahh, but the devil is in the details, as they say:

    Even more remarkably, the plants have been scrubbing the same fraction of carbon dioxide out of the air even as our emissions explode.

    “Every year we build more power plants, and every year the plants take out more CO2,” Dr. Campbell said.

    But that isn’t cause to celebrate. It’s a bit like hearing that your chemotherapy is slowing the growth of your tumor by 25 percent.

    Despite global greening, carbon dioxide levels have climbed over the past two centuries to levels not seen on Earth for millions of years. And the carbon dioxide we’ve injected into the atmosphere is already having major impacts across the planet.


    ‘Global Greening’ Sounds Good. In the Long Run, It’s Terrible. - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  16. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Debunked:

    NYT: Global Greening, Faster Plant Growth, is Bad
    ‘Global Greening’ Sounds Good. In the Long Run, It’s Terrible ... “Global greening” sounds lovely, doesn’t it?

    ". . . That “small” benefit is lucrative enough that commercial greenhouses burn tons of natural gas every year, discard the heat, and feed their crops with the CO2 produced by burning the gas, using devices like the Johnson CO2 generator.

    Even the Canadian Government advises CO2 be elevated to 800-1000ppm in greenhouses, to increase photosynthesis by up to 50%.

    To be fair to Dr. Campbell current atmospheric levels of around 400ppm are far lower than what the Canadian government advises for improved crop yields. So perhaps the natural effect is currently too small, we need to push a lot more CO2 into the atmosphere to realise the full benefits. . . ."
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  17. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "advising" and what is actually happening are two wholly different things. One is a reality, the other a scientific philosophy: What you'd like to ignore from the article;

    "...
    Yes, we now get far more food from each acre of farmland than we did a century ago. But extra carbon dioxide only accounts for a small fraction of the increase.

    “A 30 percent increase in photosynthesis does not translate into a 30 percent increase in strawberries off the land,” said Dr. Campbell.

    While photosynthesis does pull carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere, much of that gas goes right back into the air. The reason: At night, the chemical reactions in plants essentially run backward. In a process known as respiration, plants pump out carbon dioxide instead of pulling it in.
    “Part of the story is that photosynthesis is going up, and part of the story is that so is respiration,” said Dr. Campbell.

    While the increase in photosynthesis is greater than that of respiration, the ultimate benefit to crops has been small — and it doesn’t explain our modern agricultural revolution.

    “The driving factor has to be the fertilizers, the seed varieties, the irrigation,” Dr. Campbell said.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    92,705
    Likes Received:
    74,144
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Nice pics - good sign that AstroTurf Is involved somewhere

    every single one of these “arguments” (and most are straw man fallacies) have been debunked over and over and over again

    https://skepticalscience.com//
     
  19. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The original point was to answer your claim in #11 that deforestation was leading us destruction. My point was that enhanced greening counterbalances loss of forest. If you want to have a discussion about CO2 and crop yields, that's another topic.
     
  20. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  21. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your "point" was proven wrong, Jack. There is NO peer reviewed paper that proves that "greening" has replaced the destruction of rain forests. You tried twice to debunk the article I linked. You failed on both counts and are now trying to just regurgitate as if this wasn't already covered. Wondering Why Deforestation Is a Problem? Here Are the Facts (greenmatters.com)



    Moving forward, we recommend that Earth system models be refined to include key human land-use practices identified by our work—such as crop rotation, irrigation, and fertilizer use, fallowing and abandonment of land, afforestation, reforestation, and deforestation—all of which influence atmospheric carbon in different ways. Humans Are Officially Greening the Earth. Is That a Good Thing? | The Brink | Boston University (bu.edu)
     
  22. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Sorry, but you're just ignoring the evidence.

    [​IMG]

    New Study: Rising CO2 Drives Post-1980s Greening…Which Cools The Earth And Offsets 29% Of Human Emissions
    By Kenneth Richard on 6. August 2020

    About 70% of the Earth’s post-1980s vegetative greening trend has been driven by CO2 fertilization. More greening has offset or reversed 29% of recent anthropogenic CO2 emissions. Greening also has a net cooling effect on surface temperatures. Earlier this year we highlighted a study (Haverd et al., 2020) asserting rising CO2 and warming are the […]


    [​IMG]
    Earth Is Greening Due To Rising CO2…A Growing Greening Sink Offsets 17 Years Of Equivalent CO2 Emissions By 2100
    By Kenneth Richard on 19. March 2020

    A new study finds rising CO2 concentrations (and warming) have driven the rapid increase in Earth’s photosynthesis processes, or greening. CO2-induced planetary greening leads to an enormous expansion of Earth’s carbon sink. By 2100 this greening-sink effect will offset 17 years of equivalent human CO2 emissions. This easily supersedes the effect of Paris Agreement CO2 […]


    [​IMG]
    New Paper: CO2 Rise + Warming Are 91% Responsible For The Earth’s Accelerated Greening Trend Since 1990
    By Kenneth Richard on 12. August 2019

    Satellite observations indicate the Earth has become much greener in recent decades. According to scientists, the overwhelming majority of the “significant increases in tropical forests and the forests of North America, Eurasia, and China” since the early 1990s can be attributed to the combination of CO2 fertilization (56%) and climate change (35%). Image Source: O’Sullivan […]


    [​IMG]
    New Study: The Recent CO2 Increase Has Had An Even Greater Earth-Greening Impact Than Previously Thought
    By Kenneth Richard on 22. April 2019

    The Earth has been rapidly greening in recent decades, and CO2 fertilization may explain 70% of the trend (Zhu et al., 2016). A new study finds models have significantly underestimated the greening effect of rising CO2. Image Source: Winkler et al., 2019 CO2 is a pollutant? In recent years, carbon dioxide (CO2), an essential ingredient […]
     
    bringiton likes this.
  23. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  24. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    28,150
    Likes Received:
    17,789
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Which is simply a way for you to deflect from the topic.
     
  25. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,616
    Likes Received:
    1,073
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    All you're doing is just repeating the SOS which ignores the crux of the articles I posted. Again and again, for some insane reason to defend "business as usual" industrialization and urbanization, folk like you love to pretend that removal/replacement of an ecosystem that took way over a millennium to develop with crops is a reasonable substitute.

    It's not. The ecology that produces oxygen/absorbs CO2 from forests/rainforests does a hell of a lot more than you think:

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page