The coming civil war over abortion

Yes, I do recognize a pattern of only Righties pushing the talk of a civil war

 

You read my post and commented on it. Because you have no interest in it. Odd. Especially since it was essentially the same argument you are making. Oh well, so it goes.

 

Unfortunately I’ve seen a lot of such talk from lefties during the Trump administration. I think any time people think their rights are in jeopardy the subject inevitably comes up. The fact most infringement on rights comes from the left means most talk of civil war will come from the right. Pattern recognition. Like from the last civil war.

 

No, removing the choice to gestate or not IS taking away a woman's right to her own body, slavery.

"Choice" in the abortion issue refers to the choice to gestate or not ...it does not apply to every other decision the woman makes in her life.

There is no "choice" if there is only one option (gestation).

 

It's almost as if Righties are hoping for a civil war.

 

That’s what you all keep saying. Seems it’s brought up in the context of your post more than any other way. It’s almost like you are hoping righties are hoping for civil war.

To get serious. Civil war wouldn’t be civil war like it was in the 1860’s. As soon as there was a whiff, at least Russia and China would be players. I don’t think anyone wants what that would entail. We should all keep that in mind.

 

Just my observation. I think all this civil war talk is beyond silly

 

We are not going to have a civil war over abortion - unless of course if the right bans it

 

Well you may be right. I agree it’s silly until it isn’t. Then it should scare the **ll out of everyone who isn’t a sociopath. No matter who they pull the lever for.

 

I think the right has as much chance of banning abortion as I do of singlehandedly executing an expedition to Mars.

Giftedone, you know how much I dislike abortion. But if actual civil war came to pass over anyone forcibly stopping all abortions, I would likely not take part. If I did it wouldn’t be on the side using force to stop all abortions.

 

I was not aware of the degree of your dislike for abortion but, I am glad you do not want to use physical violence to stop abortions.


What I think is that it is a very bad political move for the right to take up the abortion torch in such an extremist way prior to an election.

 

Hahaha! What a silly statement.

 

You and I have been around the block a time or two on this forum on the issue. While we’ve disagreed mostly you’ve been intellectually honest and consistent which I appreciate.

I’m not much for physical violence except to defend myself or my family. Now full blown slavery or genocide and I’d probably load some magazines...

Perhaps. It’s possible the demographics may not fall where you think. We shall see. But I agree on the timing.

 

Incorrect. There are choices made leading up to pregnancy. And yes, it does apply to other aspects. You may not want to see it, but calling it slavery is hyperbole and false.

As I said, I will not make choices for other people. If they choose to terminate, it is on them. Meanwhile, they made a choice to have sex, and the majority of the time, they also made a choice to not use contraception. They had choices any number of ways. If they are responsible enough to have sex, then they are responsible enough to accept the consequences of their actions.

I'll repeat one last time: It is not my place to make a choice for them, but you need to understand that it is NOT 'slavery' to take responsibility for the consequences. They weren't just some innocent bystander who got splattered with sperm that happened to impregnate them. The were fully involved in the CHOICE of the activity that has consequences, just as if they had contracted a disease. You seem to think there should be no responsibility for the actions, and that is where you are wrong.

 

Or it could be that people in half the country think abortion is morally wrong and the government has no business sanctioning it and should in fact discourage it at every opportunity as it does to various other behaviors.

 

The demographics are pretty clear in relation to the first trimester. Someone posted some stats in either this or another thread and it is over 60% who agree with legalized abortion in the first trimester and less than 35% who disagree (the rest had no opinion - which it is safe to say that at the end of the day these folks will probably not vote and if they do it won't be on the basis of abortion).

This is the problem with the Alabama law. It is a very extreme position. While we may disagree on abortion .. I am no fan of the Dem's in general. I am a free market loving, constitution loving fiscal Republican (I do not refer to myself as conservative as modern conservatism hates the principles of Republicanism) - and the Alabama law is an anathema to Republicanism .. Full Stop.

Obviously the 35% are mostly already locked and loaded religious right conservatives. This law will not change their vote.

The main reason the Dem's lost the last election was because many Dems did not vote and Hillary was so awful that those in the middle -such as myself - could not stand her. She was such a horrible candidate .. her arrogant and condescending attitude "nails on the chalkboard" was so bad that many Dem women did not like her - although voted anyway while holding their nose.

She had no plan, nothing to vote for. All she did was "bad Trump, bad Trump, bad Trump" like some drunk parrot.

In addition, this was an anti-Establishment election with strong sentiment on both sides. While we did not know about Trump - Hillary was a known Establishment insider commodity. What she did to the Bernie was reprehensible - and you have to think that many just did not show up.

YET - despite all this - Hillary still got the majority of the popular vote. There is nothing like an extreme anti abort position that will drive Blue turnout.. and Hillary is not running this time.

There are many in the middle- like myself - who are so offended by this extremist position (and for me it is more about the founding principles rather than abortion itself) that they will either not show up or vote blue.

The demographic time bomb is real. Not just in relation to abortion. You also have the gay marriage issue and other things such as the neocon label (while I disagree with this label as Blue as just as neocon - the raging masses in general do not know better).

I was giving Red a chance on the basis of the Dems going completely mad in relation to Russiagate .. and the move of many Dems to the extreme PC left. This abortion extremism is going to negate all that - and with it any significant hope for Red in 2020 IMO.

Look at yourself ? You claim to be very much against abortion but even you do not like hard-core forcing belief on others through physical violence in relation to this issue. How do you think those who are more moderate with respect to abortion feel ?

 

Moral/Religious belief is not justification for law ? This is the problem. There is a difference between 1) having a belief and 2) forcing that belief on others through physical violence (Law).

Either you belief in freedom/ individual liberty or you don't. Belief in liberty is not belief in liberty "only for things you agree with". Everyone beliefs in that. If you do not belief in liberty for things you disagree with - then you don't belief in liberty.

Have your moral and religious beliefs - keep them - but keep them to yourself. If you don't like alcohol - don't drink. That you don't like alcohol is not justification to force your personal beliefs on others through physical violence.

 

freedom and individual liberty are never unlimited. And arguably the majority of most people common beliefs are religious based.

 

You know what liberty is ... obviously. Regardless ... saying "liberty is not unlimited" is not a justification for forcing religious beliefs on others through physical violence (Law).

Perhaps you are in favor of Theocracy - and you are welcome to your belief - this is a free country after all - I just do not share your love for theocracy and hatred for individual liberty.

Nor do I share your lack of understanding and dislike of the founding principles.

 

BS

 

Do you have verifiable proof that the vast majority of late term abortions are for healthy fetuses?

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
No, removing the choice to gestate or not IS taking away a woman's right to her own body, slavery.

"Choice" in the abortion issue refers to the choice to gestate or not ...it does not apply to every other decision the woman makes in her life.

There is no "choice" if there is only one option (gestation).

NO, I am correct, taking away one's right to one's own body is slavery.

NONE of which are crimes to be punished by being forced to gestate.

NO, wrong again...in the abortion issue "CHOICE" refers ONLY to the CHOICE to gestate or have an abortion....and YOU can't change that.

No, when one's right to one's own body is taken away that is slavery.....wTF do you call it?

And neither should politicians.

Yes, and one consequence is to have an abortion.....you are right , it IS THEIR responsibility, NOT Big Governments or some nosy self-righteous busy body's..

I NEVER said it was.

It IS slavery to take away one's right to one's own body.


.

GEEE, it really sounds like you want to punish women for having sex by FORCING THEM to gestate....yet Anti-Choicers CLAIM that's not what they're interested in... What a joke!

You seem to think their only recourse is to what you say.....HILARIOUS!!!

 

FoxHastings said: ↑
you are correct...so the only point of WASTING all that tax money on asinine laws can ONLY be to punish and harass women and make their lives even harder....

Laws and protection from those who want to take away other's rights have nothing to do with "morals"....

YOUR "morals" don't matter to anyone else, nor should they.

The government does NOT sanction abortion, it protects women from having their rights destroyed by Anti-Choicers, THAT is the government's job...it isn't to pass moral judgement on citizens..

FINE! Discourage the reasons women have abortions by guaranteeing NO woman will ever lose her job no matter how much time she has to take off of work for pregnancy and child care.


Discourage abortions by paying all women a living wage on the same scale as the man next to her doing the same job.


Keep funding entities that aid poor CHILDREN like Welfare, WIC, SNAP...entities that the RIGHT is constantly cutting funds to..


Make insurance companies provide affordable reliable birth control ..


There's some ideas...I guess you're all for that , right??? RIGHT?


.

 

Bowerbird said: ↑
Why not? The vast majority of late term abortions are for foetal abnormality incompatible with life

PROVE IT IS BS....

 

Yeah that makes total sense.

If the right wins and overturns Roe V. Wade, we'd then start a civil war.

Another person failing to use basic logic.