The Cost of ‘Medicare-for-All’

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by Hoosier8, Mar 5, 2019.

  1. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    only mr. false, fails to have valid arguments.
     
  2. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    The key to the ever changing job market and raising people out of poverty after providing affordable healthcare, is education. There are thousands of good paying unfilled engineering and skilled labor jobs unfilled. This is why businesses are pushing for immigration policies that help them fill the job market. If they can’t find them here , they look elsewhere.
    The medical field in many areas has 25% foreign born doctors.
    The poor will stay poor without education.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  3. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Healthcare costs is the number one cause of bankruptcies. You don’t think taking care of this basic need is a primary first step for poverty elimination ? One uninsured illness can stop any ones dream for a better life in its tracks.
     
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  4. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Capital must circulate under Capitalism; we must solve for a simple poverty of money among adult market participants.
     
  5. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Solving simple poverty can only increase market participation and generate that positive multiplier effect.
     
  6. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Of course. But solving poverty is not “simple”.
    If you have a magic wand you could share with us, that would be great. Otherwise, IMO, it’s healthcare, education, opportunity and support.
    The poor will make bad decisions out of necessity.....
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  7. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    This is why i don't take you very seriously about morals, either.

    The law is, employment at the will of either party.

    We can solve simple poverty by compensating for capitalism's natural rate of unemployment via unemployment compensation for merely being unemployed on an at-will basis in our at-will employment States.
     
  8. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Gobble goop.
    Why hasn’t this magic formular given any traction. So, this little side step can easily fill the thousands of engineering and skilled labor jobs with poor uneducated people.....wow.
     
  9. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Gimmicks are why the GOP lead economy have had 9 or last 10 recessions.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
  10. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    only illegals don't care about the supremacy of State law in State venues; hypocrites blame less fortunate illegals.
     
  11. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    And who hires these illegals ? The poor uninformed employer ? Nope, the businessman out to make a fast buck over third world labor. They keep them beyond their visa time because they never complain. Trump made a living taking advantage of immigrants p. Even Melania and her parents benefit from chain migration. Do you know what the synonym for republican is ? Hypocrite.
     
  12. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    lousy management; there is no express immigration clause.
     
  13. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Take a look at the Bismarck system, it is the oldest health care system in the world, around 160 years old and it works and is not a burden to countries, it even makes a profit and allows private and non governmental insurance
     
  14. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Sounds OK, but don’t we do it now ? And, isn’t Medicare for all the same ?
    The Bismarck system is non profit using govt. funded insurance plan for care provided for by not for profit private healthcare facilities. How is that any different then Medicare for all ?
    Medicare for all is a gov. insured system using private facilities which the US presently has for more then 3/4 of its recipients. Gov. managed hospitals and clinics are found mainly for the military and areas where the private sector won’t build facilities, and like a post office, provides optional facilities. Blue cross blue shield used to be a non profit private healthcare insurance plan. Obamacare now allows that. But few entities use them. So poor people and old and children don’t die, the gov steps with Medicare and Medicaid and Chips. I think we do it now with Medicare in part.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  15. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Trump made a financial killing on the backs of immigrant labor. Illegals are the result of AMERICAN BUSINESSES THAT HIRE THEM. the Gop has refused to participate in a comprehensive immigration plan. They are the road block and the main cause of majority of illegal immigrants.

    Why. Because conservatives REFUSE to provide a pathway to citizenship but still look the other way when businesses in their attempt to make profit, hire them, provide fake documentation and are co conspirators in illegals being here, which btw, is NOT a crime but is a violation of federal statute.
    Non federal police are NOT bound to enforce federal statutes, which everyone agrees is counter to a state’s rights not to. They will arrest on federal warrants.

    So “sanctuary cities” is a bogus term ! Every city in the US is potentially a sanctuary city. It’s just another bogus made up term by conservatives who hypocritically believe in the states rights NOT to enforce federal statutes without warrants.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  16. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    The Bismarck system is not government funded, it is funded by every working person.
    The government is just the dedicated tax collector and sets rules and regulation and has a oversight. The tax collect is not owned by the government and can not be touched by government, it goes straight to the insurance entities, and there are many, people can choose from.
    They are non profit, but are allowed to built a nest egg, for rainy days.
    Second most important part of the system is the price cap for procedures and medications
    Hospitals and pharma have to present their calculations to the oversight and justify their price.
    That's why a medication in the US costs $1000 and under the B-System $100.
    But the system allows for competition between the insurance carriers including private insurance.
    They all are allowed to offer additional services at no additional cost, or as a private insurance offer special service at additional cost ( naturally regulated, too ).
    It is not Medicare or Medicaid or a NHS, were the government controls the money, that is a huge difference.
     
  17. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    http://www.oecd.org/gov/budgeting/49095378.pdf
    It’s even worse then I thought. It’s funded by employers and employees. You’re still requiring employer / employees to dip into the wage package to fund a healthcare system for the “unemployed “ elderly and disabled if there is no public funding. Worse still, during a bad recession, which is what happened under Bush., millions of middle class lost their jobs ( 90%) of all job losses, which means that not only did middle class job losers lose their insurance, but funding for the elderly and retired would have been lost if insuranced under Bismarck if there was no public funding for the working poor , elderly and poor children and disabled.

    Because we had Medicare and Medicaid, the poor and elderly still retained insurance. It was the middle class employer based HC system that made it necessary for Obamacare. Conservatives refuse to acknowledged the facts. Obamacare was primarily set up for the millions of MIDDLE CLASS left jobless by the recession who qualified for nothing to pay for HC. Most of these have never returned to their previous wage levels. https://www.infowars.com/95-percent-of-the-jobs-lost-during-the-recession-were-middle-class-jobs/

    The Bismarck system is just a same old, same old way of sticking it to the middle class. HC has to be portable and not tied to employment !!!!!
    https://www.infowars.com/95-percent-of-the-jobs-lost-during-the-recession-were-middle-class-jobs/

    “Hospitals and pharma have to present their calculations to the oversight and justify their price.”
    To whom, who is ultimate responsible for enforcement ...it’s alays the Govt. by necessity.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  18. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    we have a naturalization clause not an immigration clause. we should not have an illegal problem or an illegal underclass.

    all foreign nationals should be known to the general government and have federal identification. it is a federal Obligation since 1808.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  19. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    That doesn’t happen. The majority of illegals are overstays of legal immigrants. The bottom line is, employers are responsible for turning these people in. THEY DONT DO IT.
    The food needs to be picked on the vines, the rooms need cleaning and the roofs need replacing. There is NOT enough Americans for these meanial jobs that illegals do. Its not rocket science.
     
  20. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    Bold. How is this not Medicare.....that’s the Govt. job in every healthcare system we have, even private. The reason every plan must be collect funds of the central Govt. Is simple. The IRS is empowered and can’t be fked with.
    Other then not having a trust fund and putting money in a lock box which liberals have campaigned for years in doing, it’s identical.
    Medicare WORKS and has for decades. People look forward to it and getting out of the private insurance scam. The biggest complaint is, Medicare care should pay 100% and not 80%. It looks like they want total Govt. Intervention in HC
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  21. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    lousy management does that and wastes tax money by not solving our, "illegal" problem in a market friendly manner that can generate revenue while reducing incentive for human trafficking and an illegal underclass.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  22. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    The United States needs immigrants to power its economy. It’s up to the gop to realize this, be honest and work on comprehensive immigration reform. It won’t with Trump with his ignorant white supremacy based ideology.
     
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  23. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    The US System of Medicare and Medicaid does not prevent the government to play around with its budget.
    Look what is happening to the NHS in the UK.
    In a B-system the government has no authority over the money collected, because besides the government insurance you have private non profits, like Union or trade insurances, who will get their share from the collected monies.
    They do not collect money from the government, the government provides at no cost the collection service, through the IRS.
    The government can not increase the % collected, only congress can do that, or lower it.
    Employer and employee split the 14.9%, current %. The employee gets for 7.45% a 100%, no deductible no co payment insurance, full coverage, including dental and eye-care, plus family is co-insured, including children till they have finished their education and you do not loose insurance if you get laid off.

    Now come the kicker, the system in Germany survived 2 WW and every depression or recession since its interception and at the present all insurance entities have created nest eggs in the billions of Euro. They are hitting the ceiling set for them.
    Which means the % will have to get lowered.

    I simply do not understand why the US tries to invent the wheel over and over again.
     
  24. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    That’s funny. The entire Govt. is funded by every working person. Everyone’s Govt. Is funded by workers. You're trying to make believe that tax money collected from workers and redistributed to healthcare facilities, ISN'T Govt. spending. It couldn’t be farther from the fact, that it IS just that. Down is not up.
     
  25. dagosa

    dagosa Well-Known Member

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    I’m having trouble wrapping my brain around the idea that the IRS provides a service. It has limited authority, to collect taxes and enforce the tax laws. The monies it collects are called taxes ( and fines) and is then turned over to the treasury for distribution. Over funding is put into a trust fund. Keeping it as cash on hand and not issuing bonds, would keep ir from going into the general fund. But, that’s not the IRS responsibility.
     

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