The Dust Free Sand Strawman Claim

Discussion in 'Moon Landing' started by Betamax101, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    It has been claimed that it is possible to make an entire area the size of several baseball fields, completely dust free. Regardless of whether this is possible and it most certainly is not, it is just another in a long line of ridiculous strawman claims.

    The reason this claim is a strawman is because the circumstances of viewing much of the Apollo footage is in direct contrast to what such an environment would look like. Here it is summarized:-

    • Dry sand dust free will not take ANY print.
    • Wet sand will not allow un-clumped loose material to be kicked.
    • In numerous pieces of footage up to an hour long, we see prints being made.
    • In the same footage we see very fine particles flashing across the surface.
    • There are no circumstances where this is possible on Earth.

    The following 3 clips including the youtube video are part of an unbroken 35 minute sequence.

    Clip number 1
    [video=youtube;sk5GiF_mX5w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk5GiF_mX5w[/video]

    In that video above, literally the first 3 seconds and his sideways hop shows the really fine material as it glides across the surface, when his shadow moves away from that spot a nice clear print covered completely at 46 seconds,(just like when they work around the rover and the idiotic crap about tracks!). One minute 20 seconds right on the floor as the camera zooms in, clear as day and a nice detailed print.

    Clip number 2
    https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15v.1482604.mpg

    At the first 10 seconds we see the clearest of prints being made!

    Clip number 3
    https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a15/a15v.1482841.mpg

    Replete with fine dust being kicked, same contnuous sequence(1:20 in particular for 5 seconds where it goes an un feasible Earth distance with the tiniest movement)

    The following gifs are taken from clip number 3 above:-

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The strawman taken apart in 2 easy gifs. Only someone in complete denial will refute the clear prints being made and the clear fine dust being kicked in virtually the same spot!
     
  2. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    Anyone can do this, the screen grab sharpened and contrast boosted. Clear as day!

    [​IMG]

    What are the odds that the "truthers" just blanket deny this in your face debunk? Let's see shall we.
     
  3. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, buy those are not clear examples of detailed prints. They are too far away to see any detail. They could very well be in large-grained dust-free sand.


    Check out the picture of the detailed bootprint at the 6:17 time mark of this video.

    MoonFaker - Project Sandbox
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S30XLds5gc


    The bootprints you provided are nowhere as detailed as that one is.
     
  4. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    They are detailed enough to see clear tread marks.
    The film shows very fine grain dust, but more importantly measurable arcs of soil that perfectly rise at lunar freefall speed. It makes a mockery of your other garbage claim about wires and speed.

    Only a 245% speed increase will show the soil falling at earth speed. Then of course we will see ridiculous movements of the astronauts.

    <<< MODERATOR EDIT: INSULT >>>
     
  5. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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  6. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    MEH! The footage shows quite clearly very fine dust and footprints!

    [video=youtube;sk5GiF_mX5w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk5GiF_mX5w[/video]

    Both boots, clear tread marks during a sequence that shows very fine dust being dug out even from deep down!
    <<< MODERATOR EDIT: OFF TOPIC/FLAMEBAIT >>>
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    Let's try this the easy way.

    Can you see any tread marks at all in any of the bootprints we see being made? Any at all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Can you see the tread marks on either of the prints next to his boots? Prints that are clearly seen being made on the video.
     
  8. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying those show the same detail as these?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S30XLds5gc
    MoonFaker - Project Sandbox
    (6:26 time mark)
     
  9. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    Why are you so afraid to be wrong? I asked you a question now answer it. They are next to his boots. The detail we see is irrelevant. We can see clear tread patterns being made and that is impossible in dry sand!

    Can you see signs of tread on those prints we see being made?
    YES OR NO!

    We both know why you cannot answer this honestly. If you say you can see the tread patterns than that flushes your years long spam claim down the toilet. If you say you can't, everyone can see that you are lying. Or you could do what the others are doing and just pretend not to see it. Either way, your main claim is a strawman since we see treads being made and very fine dust being kicked and dug out.
     
  10. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    Maybe the sand is a little damp there from digging down into the water table... :)
     
  11. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    Maybe you should watch the video and see where he digs it out with extremely fine dust visible scattering across the surface. Don't you think it goes an awful long way and height for such a simple scoop motion?

    My next project when I finish this section of my current work is to show the regolith falling at earth freefall speed. I have already done a cursory check and it is nearly 250% faster than the speed shown. Guess what happens to the astronauts motion.

    Who'd a thought it, one piece of Apollo 15 film shows they were on the Moon:roll:
     
  12. Descartes

    Descartes Member

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    No, I don't. The long handle on the scoop amplifies the motion (kind of like a golf club) and gives the sand a high velocity. Watch Jarrah running on the beach in the following video (at the 4:10 mark) - Slow it down a little and the sand motion looks remarkably similar to what we see in the Apollo videos.

    MoonFaker: Project Sandbox
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl2S8w-ucmc

    I don't quite understand what you are saying but take a look at this slowed down video of the Apollo jump salute:

    Apollo 16 jump salute 1 Frame per second
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBREzxdSTOY

    and notice that the sand falls down and is completely gone before the astronaut begins to come down - so the sand falls quicker than the astronaut does...

    Who'd a thought it, one piece of Apollo 16 film shows they were hooked to wires and that they were on the earth! :roll:
     
  13. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    Jarrah's video doesn't make prints. Didn't you notice! You can't have both. His big kicks send the sand nowhere near as far as simple jinks by the astronauts, it isn't even close. It looks nothing like the Apollo dust either. It hugs the surface and spreads out really fine. Another one of these pathetic blinkered observations by a hoax believer!

    That is always the problem. People aren't sufficiently educated to understand absolute rock solid proof.

    And you can see the sand fall in front of him how? It goes up the same height why? Anyone with eyes can see the regolith doesn't go up as high as he does and why the hell would it!

    Your understanding of what occurs on the Moon is limited by your inexperience and desire for it to be a hoax. You really don't know what you are talking about. In the sequence prior to this the astronauts actually move about and cross so are these magical tangle free wires?

    Now take your off topic rubbish to another thread.

    Can you see the tread prints? Is there fine dust being kicked? Yes is the answer, do you agree? Or are you going to scuttle away and pretend that it isn't a slam dunk proof it is on the Moon! You won't answer will you:roll:
     
  14. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    To me it looks like Jarrah's beach sand but slowed down a little.


    There won't be zero tread prints in sand. They just won't have the detail that they'd have in fine wet soil. Your examples are too far away to see if there's any detail. They could very well be in large-grained dust-free sand.


    Anyway, this doesn't make the clearer proof of a hoax go away.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=438617&p=1065699308#post1065699308
    http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8033032&postcount=1
    http://www.politicalforum.com/moon-landing/347662-apollo-moon-missions-were-faked-studio.html


    As I've said before, since the other anomalies have already proven the hoax, this issue isn't about whether they faked the missions. It's about how they faked the missions.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=362999&page=2&p=1064028979#post1064028979
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=403884&page=2&p=1064900819#post1064900819
     
  15. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    Beach sand will not take any prints at all. Nowhere in your video where he wildly kicks sand about does he make a single even non-detailed print.

    I asked you a straight forward question and you avoided I yet again. There are a number of threads running where you are cornered and have nothing but denial and spam.

    I have isolated two clips as animations and a screen print. In these we can see clearly that not only are prints being made, they are solid and have definite tread patterns.

    A truther responds to evidence, what are you afraid of? The evidence shows we landed, so nothing you spam can change that. Prints on dry sand don't happen on earth. You would get laughed out of the debating hall for your inept responses.
     
  16. Scott

    Scott Well-Known Member

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    They didn't necessarily use beach sand. Don't you think they could have used sifting devices to get the minimum grain size that wouldn't hang in atmosphere? Sand can be sifted as many times as necessary with screens with different hole sizes to get the uniform size desired. This is pretty low-tech. It's just a question of going through the trouble of doing it and they had the budget to do it.


    They aren't close enough to the camera for us to be able to see if they have the detail you say they have.


    That's what you want the viewers who don't look at them to think. Viewers: Please look at them before you judge.


    Let's not forget that you destroyed your credibility a long time ago by saying that it would be impossible to transport and place large-grained dust-free sand without causing enough erosion to create enough dust to cause a dust cloud when the sand is driven over.
    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=403884&page=2&p=1064900819#post1064900819

    No one who takes the time to look at that issue is going to take anything you say seriously as it's clear that you're capable of saying things you know to be untrue.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=362999&page=2&p=1064028979#post1064028979
     
  17. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    And yet again you avoid the simple direct question and come out with pure hogwash. So according to you, really fine stuff say like cement powder should take a print huh?
    Do you remember this astonishingly brainless video from your hero Jarrah White where he uses extremely fine lunar simulant to see if it takes a print?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkdOMdIYxlI

    Debunks his own argument with his own ignorance. He is unable to make a print with it. Explain why!

    Yes they are. Once again you run away scared of the truth.

    Does the picture I highlighted show clear tread lines on the two boot prints? The answer sadly for you and easily seen is yes it does. Even your new arrival has tacitly admitted this.

    Your credibility never actually started at high. You have none, you're not qualified to judge anybody since your own test falls flat on its face!

    We have two: The Chinese Spacewalk a video made by a person who denies the 911 and Moon hoax claims completely. The "washed soil" claim where an engineer gives a differing opinion to 3 undetermined skill level geologists, which in itself is irrelevant since we see prints and kicked dust in the same video numerous times.

    You are the cornered, checkmated Black Knight, laughed out of the debate hall for turning up with your underpants on your head and a bag full of spam.

    [​IMG]

    Sharpened and contrast boosted:-

    [​IMG]

    CAN YOU SEE THE PRINTS?
     
  18. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    MythBusters put this one to rest already.


    Supposedly, "A clear footprint cannot be made in vacuum because there is no moisture to hold its shape."

    busted

    The Build Team first tested whether dry or wet sand made a more distinguishable footprint by stepping in them with an astronaut boot. It was clear that the wet footprint had more detail than the dry footprint. They then placed sand similar in composition to the Moon&#8217;s soil in a vacuum chamber and stepped on it with an astronaut boot, which made a clear print. The reason provided for this was that the unique composition of lunar soil allows it to behave differently than terrestrial soil.

    http://mythresults.com/nasa-moon-landing

    The 'fake' shadows, etc were also tested and busted.
     
  19. Betamax101

    Betamax101 Member

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    Good point. The vacuum aids friction in allowing the fine jagged particles to bind, no air between them.

    You have opened the door for the regulation spam response concerning Mythbusters' credibility - yet another test from ignorance.
     
  20. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ya but MythBusters does take steps to adhere to scientific principles/experimentation and are not afraid of the outcome. In any case, the results speak for themselves...we DID go to the moon.
     

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