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The Electoral College Is the Greatest Threat to Our Democracy

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by LafayetteBis, Mar 1, 2019.

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  1. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In every state where Trump pulled the popular vote, he won that state
    In every state where Hillary pulled the popular vote, she won that state.

    It seems fair to me.

    Trump simply won more states.

    Seems very fair.
     
    Robert, Mar 9, 2019
    #326
  2. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your system to work means we outlaw states and their borders.

    The definition of a state is it is a self contained government.

    Why blend the votes of S. Dakota to those of Texas?
     
    Robert, Mar 9, 2019
    #327
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is not the problem.

    The problem is that regardless of the popular-vote for president, the Electoral College gives ALL ITS VOTES TO THE WINNER. This is unfair, since what should be reported is just the proportional result of the popular-vote and nothing else ... !
     
    LafayetteBis, Mar 9, 2019
    #328
  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Grrrrrrr.

    Voting results of the last election for the PotUS, number and (percentage):
    Clinton - 65,853,514 (48.2)
    Trump - 62,984,828 (46.1)

    Yes, Trump won more states BUT ONLY IN THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE in which the popular-vote is manipulated by means of the EC's manner of giving all EC-votes to the winner of the popular-vote!

    In any True Democracy where the popular-vote is NOT manipulated ONLY the popular-vote is counted to elect a representative of the people to public office!
     
    LafayetteBis, Mar 9, 2019
    #329
  5. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do not count the system of the USA as a true Democracy. I also realize it never has been one. Were it intended, we would have such a system.

    Trump won more states as you say. And that is how the system is designed. And it has worked since the first EC election that did not include the public at all. That was how it truly was designed.

    Let me give you a kind of parallel.

    I live in CA. Should we include the votes of other states who voted for republicans in our election of our own governor? What if we could pack against our Democrats the votes of say Texas?

    My suggestion is and probably will remain we kick out this notion that the public is qualified to select presidents and go back to letting the experts in the EC elect him!

    I can see thousands of benefits. Clearly if we did not vote for presidents, we would knock off all the fighting over who the president is.
     
    Robert, Mar 9, 2019
    #330
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  6. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    As long as you embrace affirmative action, open borders, illegal alien voting, diversity admissions, and anti discrimination laws, you have no business crying about true democracy, white privilege, and gerrymandering.
     
    Injeun, Mar 9, 2019
    #331
  7. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    We were never intended to be a true democracy. The popular vote in each state determines the way the EC rep. will vote. You have so many better options to chose from I'm surprised that you're still here.
     
    Heartburn, Mar 9, 2019
    #332
  8. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    No, he won the popular vote in more States than Hillary did which is why their EC reps voted accordingly.
     
    Heartburn, Mar 9, 2019
    #333
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  9. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Who got more then him? By what percent?
     
    rahl, Mar 9, 2019
    #334
  10. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

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    The electoral college AND THE SENATE where a state with a handful of people living in it has the exact same 2 senators as California which has about 12-13% of our total population living in it.
     
    61falcon, Mar 9, 2019
    #335
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  11. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Life can be so unfair, huh?
     
    Heartburn, Mar 9, 2019
    #336
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  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    You certainly are obsessed with simply "who got the most votes". Rather a primitive middle school level mentality.
     
    Dayton3, Mar 9, 2019
    #337
  13. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Not really. The founding principle of this country was a government of the people. So, having a president serve in office, thst the people rejected is as unamerican as it gets.
     
    rahl, Mar 9, 2019
    #338
  14. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    People who think they know better than the Founders are the greatest threat to our Republic.
     
    fifthofnovember, Mar 10, 2019
    #339
  15. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    Just because a candidate got MARGINALLY fewer votes than someone else at a single point in time in no way means that the American people "rejected" him.
     
    Dayton3, Mar 10, 2019
    #340
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correct!

    But nonetheless even the election of senators (though each state only has two) is also "manipulated". Howzat?

    See here (from the Guardian newspaper):
    US midterms 2018, Democrats got millions more votes – so how did Republicans win the Senate?

    Excerpt:
    The bad news is that change is highly necessary in our voting. (With the Electoral College being the worst example of manipulation of the popular-vote) But, that change is exceedingly difficult to obtain, since it requires often fundamental errors made in the Constitution.

    But when voting suppression is a manipulation of a party within the state with the power to do so, then IT WILL HAPPEN. The national voting process needs perhaps a common Constitutional law the defines voting procedures and illicit manipulations?

    And in a country that is "proud about its Constitution" (which it has every right to be), then the corrections are all that more difficult to bring about to address certain patent dysfunctions ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    LafayetteBis, Mar 10, 2019
    #341
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What can I say? You simply don't understand maths!

    No surprise there ...
     
    LafayetteBis, Mar 10, 2019
    #342
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your ignorance is showing.

    No other developed democracy on earth allows the popular-vote to be manipulated by an Electoral College allowing the winner of the popular-vote to be attributed all of the EC-votes! Because no other developed democracy even HAS an Electoral College.

    It is apparent that you do not understand that tampering with the popular-vote is proof-positive of an illegitimate election!

    Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ...
     
    LafayetteBis, Mar 10, 2019
    #343
  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Typo: But, that change is exceedingly difficult to obtain, since it requires often fundamental errors made in the Constitution.

    Should read: But, that change is exceedingly difficult to obtain, since it requires often addressing fundamental errors made in the Constitution.

    I don't think, in the entire history of the country, that we have ever challenged errors in the Constitution.

    That does not mean we never should! That's what amendments are for, and Americans should get used to the fact that the Constitution must be updated when necessary.

    And given this last election where the popular-vote winner lost the election is just such a moment in time! Five times in our history this has happened. Enough is enough ... !
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    LafayetteBis, Mar 10, 2019
    #344
  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    He didn't get marginally less votes. But yes, it of course means the American people rejected him. If they didn't, he would have received more votes than his opponent.
     
    rahl, Mar 10, 2019
    #345
  21. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    I understand how the vote is counted and why. Maybe maths is more complicated than you think?
     
    Heartburn, Mar 10, 2019
    #346
  22. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    Rejection can be so painful.
     
    Heartburn, Mar 10, 2019
    #347
  23. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    A 3% difference in popular vote. That is about 1 out of every 30 voters is marginal.
     
    Dayton3, Mar 10, 2019
    #348
  24. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    No, it isn't marginal. The simple fact remains, americans soundly rejected trump in the 2016 election.
     
    rahl, Mar 11, 2019
    #349
  25. Heartburn

    Heartburn Well-Known Member

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    You need to watch more news programs, Trump is President.
     
    Heartburn, Mar 11, 2019
    #350
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