The heat wave in western USA and Canada, Global Warming or negation of Global Dimming Effect?

Discussion in 'Science' started by DennisTate, Jul 10, 2021.

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Is the heat wave of the summer of 2021 the negation of The Global Dimming Effect?

  1. No

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  2. Yes

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  3. Maybe.... but that sure is not what BigMedia is telling us!!!!!

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  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually.... much as volcanic activity puts ash, soot and dust into the atmosphere that causes COOLING of the climate...... so also the dust, soot and ash from industry STOPPING over the past year and half DECREASE THE GLOBAL DIMMING EFFECT.... which sets in motion rapid warming.... (which may help to explain the HEAT WAVE in the Western USA and western Canada now in July of 2021)???

    Since April of 2020 the world economy virtually shut down...... which tends to Decrease the Global Dimming Effect..... which can cause rapid WARMING!!!!!???? The reporters on CNN and BigMedia are unlikely to tell you and I about this though!


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_trans.shtml
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think the unusual heatwave that happened in the Pacific Northwest was due to other factors, besides "Global Warming".
    Global warming may have been a partial factor, but is was mainly due to an unusual convergence of weather factors. Hotter winds coming from the inland east pushed up against winds flowing from the west coming from the ocean. This created a higher pressure area that pushed air down. Because of this, air heated by the land surface was not able to rise like it usually does. Or in other words it interfered with the normal process of convective cooling. For a short time, the hotter winds from the inland east prevailed, until the ocean winds coming from the west eventually prevailed and began to push east.

    The Pacific Northwest can get hot at this time of year, but early June is not the hottest time of year. Which indicates that global warming was not the main factor responsible.

    But something else additional was going on because the Northeast was also substantially hotter than usual during this time, although not anywhere near as unusually hot as the Northwest.
     
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  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good points...I suspect that other factors are at play here also.

    The idea of Global Dimming.....and of negating Global Dimming goes all the way back to the three days after the September 11, 2001 terrorist attack when only one factor that increases Global Dimming was removed!

    Shutting down the world economy like has occurred since April of 2020 until now can increase warming.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_trans.shtml

    I think that this is kind of interesting because in a way from April of 2020 until July of 2021 pretty much the whole Wish List implied in the film "An Inconvenient Truth" has been done and instead of that decreasing a general Global Warming trend this has in many ways made Warming even worse because the Global Dimming Effect was greatly decreased.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_winter

     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    If this were just some confluence of weather events it would have happened at some time in recorded history.

    The finger prints of climate change come as the increased probability of highly unusual events such as what happened in the PNW.

    Plus, the increased heating in the western states is happening from CA/AZ through Alaska and is not limited to one year or one season.
     
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  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    I think it's hard to say what it is. Both of the theories you presented are possible.

    I think it really boils down to the idea that nature is some sort of delicate balance, and I don't think so.

    Show the agw theory seems to be identical to religion.

    And this has been in trouble in religions going back long before Christianity even existed.

    People with sacrifice animals and even other people to gods to ensure a good crop harvest and if their gods were pleased with their sacrifice they would record them with a good harvest or a bountiful catch. And when weather outside of their control would occur that would devastate and kill crops animals and people they would say it was because the gods were mad at them.

    Anthropogenic global warming is just a modern version of that same thing we want to believe we have control over these things. That if we atone for our sins and not or hold responsible we can please the Earth God or the temperature whatever miraculous thing you believe in.

    Once you see that this is just a volcano called without the volcano you can't give it any more validity than that.

    I wonder if the people that were native to Florida believed that whatever they did caused hurricanes to strike their coasts. I'm willing to bet the way they would atone for it if they thought that that's what was going on is through self-sacrifice mostly by alleviating comfort or sacrificing of material goods. It is an exact duplicate today but couched in science
     
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  6. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Every heatwave, every hurricane, every flood event is due to man made global warming. Buy an electric car and save the earth.

    Dozens of electric cars in France getting crushed because new batteries are too expensive:

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The "wish list" can not possibly have an effect within the period of time you indicate.

    For one example, it takes YEARS for greenhouse gasses to reduce. Having a year or two of the reduction that may have taken place might not even be detectable in terms of measureing our atmospheric content.

    The changes we need have to be held for a period that may as well be considered permanent. Then, future decades can gradually show the reductions that will cause warming to slow.

    As for the particulates, the idea that some significant finding would be ignored by science is highly unlikely. And, that is especially true if the finding were to indicate that our problem may not be as bad as we thought. There are HUGE monied interests in that kind of result. And, there is great opportunity for significant recognition for work that shows that.

    The scientists whose names we know are those who showed that our universe works in ways that others did not suspect. We don't know the names of those who simply confirm.
     
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  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The average temperature of Earth IS warming. That is a fact that has been measured in numerous ways by scinetists the world over.

    Nobody has EVER measured god.

    That is a gigantic difference.
     
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  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I think you meant that the batteries in THOSE vehicles are too expensive. Products get crushed due to being too expensive all the time. There is nothing new about that, and it doesn't mean the product category is dead.

    Electric cars are cheaper to operate than gas cars in much of the USA.

    Automobile manufacturers from Masseratti to Ford are moving to electric vehicles. I think they would know about the battery issue you point to. They aren't betting their business without csareful investigation.
     
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  10. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    yeah it's been warming for 20,000 years. Before that it was cooling and then before the cooling it was warming. Global temperature is not static and pointing out that it changes doesn't mean anything.
    are you accepted as a fact. When I learned about the ice age I knew that the temperature of the globe had changed since then to the warmer side of things that was never even in contest.
    of course not this is why I don't believe in yours. Some magical Force of nature you believe in that the more convenient we make our life the more it punishes you is the baseline to any sacrificial cult that ever existed.
    Between your moronic straw man and fact not between my statement and fact.
     
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  11. lemmiwinx

    lemmiwinx Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They figure rich people want to be environmentally correct so they're going electric. And they'll get rich off it themselves so it's all good. Hell, poor people can ride scooters. Preferably electric scooters.
     
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  12. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I pointed out that electric cars are cheaper to ooperate.

    You can buy any car you want. But, suggesting that only the rich want to pay less for transportation seems counter intuitive to me.

    Yes, electric cars are more expensive to purchase right now, but that's always the way it is when new products get created.

    Computers used to be way too expensive. Cell phones used to be way too expensive. CARS used to be way too expensive. Washing machines used to be way too expensive.

    Ford isn't going electric in order to cater to the rich and famous.
     
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  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    You need to scale it back a bit and consider that people don't live as long as ice ages.

    There is no question that in a few hundred (or thousand?) years Earth's temperature may be doing something other than what it is doing today.

    But, the issue is today, and all of climate science points to the industrial age as the beginning of human activity beginning to affect the temperature of Earth by changing the relatively delicate balance between arriving heat from the sun and the departing heat of Earth into the super cold of outer space.

    And, that IS a delicate balance - a balance that has changed in the past and will continue to be susceptible to change, even due to human activity.
     
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  14. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    You stated the globe was warming no ****. Do you also want to establish that water is wet and the sky is blue?

    I'm not scaling it back mocking absurd things is how we convince other people not to believe in them.
    I don't accept the delicate balance mythology I'm not part of that nutty cult.

    You're going to have to try a lot harder than quoting your stupid scriptures at me.
    And certain other people think the Earth is flat you can think whatever scary crap you want I don't care.

    I'm not joining your cult.
     
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  15. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It has. The meteorologists are saying this a very rare confluence of weather factors - the type of thing that one would expect only once every 500 years.

    Of course the recorded history in this region doesn't really go back 500 years.
     
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  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    So, you are pointing out that the PNW temperature highs have NOT happened in recorded history - not even once?

    And, now it has happened multiple days in a row?

    If THAT is what you are saying, I'd agree.

    Isn't this EXACTLY what one would expect with climate change - the occurrance of events that have never before happened, and that are consistent with what would be expected from the kind of climate change we hare having right now?
     
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  17. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Well, I would need to gain some understanding of what it is that you would possibly value in terms of evidence.

    After all, I quote NOTHING but science, and if you see that as "stupid scripture", that does present a problem in our conversation.

    Flat Earth is trivially easy to prove idiotic, so I think you are WAY wrong on that one.
     
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  18. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    Not really interested in joining your cult but thanks.
     
  19. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    OK.

    But, science is neither mine nor a cult.
     
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  20. Polydectes

    Polydectes Banned

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    Your cult isn't based on science.
     
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  21. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is correct. But I have explained why I don't think that is really an indicator that there has been long-term temperature change.

    Look, the record that was set in Portland was only 2 degrees lower than Phoenix, even though Portland is much further north and Phoenix is normally much hotter. What does this tell us? There was an usual event that took place specifically in the Northwest region. If this phenomena of higher temperatures had more equally affected a much wider area, then we would expect Phoenix to have been much hotter than that.

    The Northwest was extremely much hotter than it usually gets, while at the same time the Southwest was only moderately hotter than it usually gets.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Take a look at post number three again..... in only three days after September 11, 2001, when removing only ONE major factor in Global Dimming, temperatures in the USA rose by one degree!

    Imagine what can happen when many factors that tend to decrease Global Dimming are removed over a year and a half??????

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_trans.shtml

     
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  23. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Three days isn't climate - that is weather.

    In the PNW (and elsewhere), the long term warming trend is making extreme weather conditions more likely.
     
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  24. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The PNW being 2 degrees different than Phoenix means absolutely nothing. In fact, it is usually the case that the temperature differences are larger than that.

    The anomaly in the PNW didn't cover the whole USA or even the whole West Coast. Weather doesn't behave in lock step.

    Again, the general warming of Earth makes extreme weather more likely. It does NOT mean that warming happens everwhere at the same time.
     
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  25. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was my point. The fact the difference was not larger than that, like it usually is, is evidence there was something extremely unusual going on in the Northwest, which did not affect the Southwest that much. That means general global warming is probably not directly responsible, so much.

    So we're talking about specific weather in a place rather than general global warming.

    That could be, but that seems to be a separate argument.
    Do you think there was more extreme weather during the time of the dinosaurs?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021

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