And the "Presidential Think Tank" did not make policy either. As I said, they had no budget, no personnel other than a few thinkers, and no authority over anything. What you are talking about already exists under the HHS.
I don't know of any group working on how to head off and/or deal with future pandemic. Who do we have working with Wuhan or in the ME or Africa, or ?? to identify ways of reducing and detecting viruses entering the human genome? Who do we have planning how hospitals can get adequate staff and supplies? Who do we have working on your idea of isolation, or on how to handle travel inside the US and with foreign countries - the way WE got infected? Who do we have that is being successful in convincing Americans to follow medical best practices?
The problem with that strategy, knowing what we all should know about people-- you know, the ones who didn't prepare in advance, whether in the public, or the government; the ones who haven't adopted healthier lifestyles, other than perhaps pledging to make "this the year," a little bit earlier, each New Year's Eve; the ones who didn't want to be inconvenienced by not being able to go to their favorite fast food restaurant, etc., etc., etc.-- is that, as a species, we are overwhelmingly lazy, self-centered, careless, incompetent, and irresponsible. So what makes you think that's gonna change?
Rare red meat and beer are the keys to health. I don't consume wild animals... I hunt in the supermarket in the beef, lamb, and pork departments mainly. Factories are built, not planted.
OK... LOL... OK... you have me... I should have said "meat" in general. I do include chicken, duck, goose, buffalo, mutton, and all sorts of meat. The things I eat... eat vegetable matter.
It’s not going to change. The majority of people in government and out of government will remain unprepared. So, if YOU want to have control over how a pandemic effects you, YOU have to take responsibility. That’s my point. Government won’t do it for you and your neighbors and strangers at the grocery store won’t do it for you. Of course many like the poster I was in conversation with will pretend or hope government will protect them. That’s easier than actually taking personal responsibility. Government knows the majority will take the same path. That’s why they can take intentional incorrect actions during the last pandemic that cost many lives yet still retain god-like status among the survivors. The ONLY thing that can ever change or will ever change to add to your personal protection is things YOU do for yourself. That has been my whole focus in posting about Covid here on PF for over 2 years. To give people accurate information they could use to protect themselves effectively if they chose to. You can’t change what government does. No matter how many posts I write about things like government denying the public quality masks, government won’t change the mindset that led to that. What can change is individuals learning from that debacle and taking concrete actions to protect themselves the next time government lies about mitigations. Complaining that most people will continue to be irresponsible isn’t productive either. Energy would be better spent preparing yourself, not complaining that government and others won’t step up and protect you. I’m trying to encourage that individual preparation.
Well I appreciate your providing information for those who choose to help themselves. It seemed, however, as if you expected this to replace, in a big way, our reliance on government. I guess I just misread your intent. Though, to be fair, your misread mine, as well, if your line about "complaining that most people will continue to be irresponsible," was directed towards my post; I had simply been pointing this out, because of how it would affect the alternative plan, it had seemed to me, you were promoting for society, on the whole, not just for those exceptional people, such as yourself. My only other question about your perspective, then, is the (seemingly, from what I've read) ever-present assumption, almost, that government officials are not simply as stupid and incompetent as are so many in our society, but that in most of not all cases, their "mistakes" are intentional. You do raise some interesting points, and reason for doubt, but certainly not enough to take this for granted. Though, perhaps, I have gotten the wrong impression of your words, once more.
~ Some of us like to do both. We take care of ourselves, and also lend a hand to others when we can. We also like to complain and vent .
First, there is nothing exceptional about me or how I dealt with Covid. It all boils down to simple choices—there’s nothing profound or complicated or difficult. I really wish personal responsibility could replace dependence on government. I guess that would be my goal even though I understand human nature well enough to know it’s not achievable on a large scale. So I’ve attempted to be clear about my concern for the individual, not society as a whole. I can see how the post you responded to was a bit ambiguous though. I believe the first post I made on PF concerning concrete actions people could take to protect themselves was this post in April of 2020. I don’t believe since then I’ve posted anything explicitly advocating for societal change. Sorry to have misinterpreted your post. I’m glad you aren’t just looking for someone (government) to “save” you. There are certainly stupid/incompetent government officials. But the big “blunders” were not accidental. For example, the government and healthcare providers (research hospitals, university hospitals) were complicit in depriving Americans of domestic N95 masks for 9 months after there was a massive surplus of masks. The CDC, who approves new mask manufacturing facilities and NIOSH certifies the masks produced, withheld such masks from Americans knowing full well these masks were superior to cloth masks and knowing full well manufacturers were facing bankruptcy because they were sitting on surplus masks the CDC wouldn’t let them sell on Amazon etc. and hospitals refused to buy for their employees even when manufacturers offered masks directly to hospitals. Manufacturers had hundreds of millions of masks in inventory and were almost bankrupt from having capital tied up in unsold masks. They were laying off workers and idling production while the CDC was telling you N95 masks were in short supply. And manufacturers were actively marketing these masks to US hospitals and healthcare departments who refused to buy them for their employees while making employees re-use masks etc. This was not incompetence. It was intentional. This is just one example. Another example was Fauci claiming his early recommendations against masks was predicated on not knowing if Covid “could” be spread asymptomatically/pre-symptomatically. Yet EVERY virologist and epidemiologist knows that respiratory viruses all spread asymptomatically/pre-symptomatically with very rare exceptions (one being smallpox which was able to be eradicated based on this anomaly). No epidemiologist of that rank would accidentally recommend against masks based on an almost zero chance Covid wouldn’t spread asymptomatically and/or pre-symptomatically. Fauci is not honest, but he is highly intelligent and far too experienced to make that type of error. I hear the above actions often dismissed as simple mistakes. But they aren’t mistakes because the people involved are not stupid and also they were lobbied by the private sector (me included) to follow the evidence that conflicts with their “advice”. That evidence was overwhelmingly vast and easily accessible. I could go on and on for pages showing how the “experts” knew about things like the superiority of passive vaccination with monoclonal antibodies for the immunocompromised, yet withheld them even though they had passed phase 3 trials with as good as or superior safety than the Pfizer Moderna, and J&J vaccines and were already in common use as treatments. I could document the immediate pulling of monoclonal antibodies from healthcare providers when omicron hit the US based on claimed reduced efficacy against omicron even though most parts of the country had less than 20% prevalence of omicron snd there was no formal quantifiable evidence of decreased efficacy in vivo. Pulling effective treatments without evidence of lost efficacy in vivo and in the face of solid evidence the claimed escape variant was not even prevalent in the population is not a mistake. A bunch of people had to think that through and take action in direct conflict with empirical evidence. I’m not making assumptions about incompetence vs. intentional disinformation. I’m following where the evidence leads. Initially reported vaccine efficacy in prevention of infection not holding up in the real world I believe was an actual blunder. It was not intentional disinformation. There was not sufficient data on variants and how abandonment of other mitigation like closed schools and masking would affect population wide infection rates. Initial claims turned out to be incorrect, but did not conflict with known data at the time like the examples above. Anyway, that’s all history now and only relevant as evidence it’s best not to rely on such folks whether their actions were intentional or just incompetence. My point holds regardless—if you want the best shot at survival, it won’t be by dependence on others.
Two things we can do to prevent the next plandemic, are to turn off the tv and convict every scientist, medical professional and bureaucrat that has conspired with any lab or agency in the past. Then there'd be no future plandemics.
Your accusations are very serious ones (as I'm sure you realize), so deserve careful consideration. I hope, therefore, you don't mind my going over your evidence, with you. Now, the idea that N95 masks were going to be needed by healthcare & other emergency personnel, seems a reasonable cause for government's health authorities, to discourage a public panic & race to "stock up" on these. With the number of people in our country, and the realistically possible oversupply that some might purchase, in such a scenario, I don't know how you could say there was a "surplus." You cite there being "hundreds of millions," in reserve, but that only equates to one or two masks per person. While I understand that N95 masks are reusable (and own one, which I had prior to the pandemic), can you not imagine people going out and buying 20 or more, each? Now, your charge that hospitals refused to buy them, seems odd, but you do not go into either the reasons they gave to suppliers (as it seems you must have an inside source, to know this), or your own stipulations as to what caused this (as all hospitals are not under government control-- right?). Could not mere economic factors, IOW, short-sighted, "money- saving," stupidity on the part of hospitals' administrators, not account for all or much of this phenomenon? That is a very concerning charge, indeed. Can we start with just a source, either quoting Dr. Fauci, or in which we can listen to him, in a video-- or are you basing your contention on only your recollection, of the excuse, Fauci offered?
I am being serious. It isn't a conspiracy theory if there is too much undeniable evidence that suggests what you and many others want to ignore.
Can't get any more serious than this. https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/death-certificate-data-covid-19-as-the-underlying-cause-of-death/ https://www.organiclifestylemagazin...ves-drove-up-covid-19-death-rates?print=print https://www.contagionlive.com/view/fda-plans-to-approve-omicron-targeting-booster-vaccines https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4125239 https://expose-news.com/2021/02/08/official-data-on-adverse-reactions-to-vaccines/ Scientific and Medical Research, Data, & Reports Compiled by K.Dopp, MS Mathematics The truth can't be silenced.
@Montegriffo, I want to respect your thread. Are you OK with the conversation between @DEFinning and I above? If not, I’m sure we can move it elsewhere.
It is conversations like that I'm trying to protect. I just don't want it full of conspiracy theories about vaccine deaths etc.
I don’t make accusations, I simply report the facts. From February/March of 2020 until around December of 2020 there was a shortage of N95 masks. This is why the lie was told that cloth masks were just as good as medical grade masks like N95s. After around December 2020 there was no longer a shortage of N95 masks. By February 2021 even the New York Times was concerned about the inability to get available masks into the hands and onto the faces of those who wanted/needed them. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny...alth/covid-masks-china-united-states.amp.html By August 2020, not only were domestic supplies in massive excess, Chinese N95s were widely available. DemeTech had laid off most of it’s workforce and had still accumulated 170 million more unsold masks than it had in February 2020. https://thehill.com/business-a-lobb...kers-say-theyre-in-danger-of-going-broke/amp/ So we see during the period December 2020 to August 2021 there was an excess of N95 masks and most production had ceased. And Chinese masks were also available. Yet the CDC recommended AGAINST the use of N95 masks until September 10, 2021, nine months after US manufacturers started idling plants because they couldn’t sell masks based on CDC advice and CDC telling retailers not to sell N95 masks. The US government even stopped purchasing masks in early 2021 they had so many stockpiled. But the CDC recommended against their use and hospitals refused to buy domestic production, preferring to short their employees with the excuse to avoid pennies higher cost or having to fit test. No inside source. Just sources like the NYT and Bloomberg and The Hill. From the above NYT piece. Just more comprehensive information than was seen on talking head shows or late night comedy shows. You are welcome to believe it was stupidly that led all hospitals to deprive employees of masks at a time when NIOSH certified domestically produced masks were in oversupply. But I believe the evidence is overwhelming it wasn’t stupidity. Some hospitals would have got it right if it was just a bunch of stupid blind squirrels looking for nuts. To argue stupidity, one would have to accept all hospital administrations are too stupid to put worker health above a little extra expense or a little time to fit test. The argument that if the CDC stopped recommending against N95 masks would have resulted in a run and a new shortage is invalid for several reasons. First, in the summer of 2021 mask wearing was not nearly as common as at the end of 2020. At one point the CDC was advising no masks for the vaccinated. Second, at least 20-30% of the country was already anti mask because of political tribalism and Fauci’s earlier incorrect advice. Third, any uptick in sales would have been easily covered by idled plants resuming production and Chinese masks picking up any slack not covered domestically. The evidence is clear that after December 2020 there was no actual mask shortage.
You can look up the 60 minutes video if you wish. The other sources are Fauci on the record with respected journalists. I hope his own words will suffice. Here is a quote of Fauci in an interview February 17, 2020. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...know-dr-anthony-fauci-q-a-opinion/4790996002/ On March 8 the infamous interview with Fauci on 60 minutes was aired where he told Americans not to wear masks because they are ineffective and in short supply. Of course for some odd reason they protect healthcare workers but not others. LOL When asked about the above comments by Nora O’Donnell In July 2020 he said this: There are multiple falsehoods in the July interview above. (Including the claim homemade and cloth masks are as good as surgical grade masks and the claim there was enough PPE at the time. We can take those lies up later if you wish.) But it demonstrates Fauci knew about asymptomatic transmission in February, recommended AGAINST masks on March 8, and then claims in July he didn’t know in March what he’s on record knowing in February. The job of public health officials is to protect the public. Instead of following known evidence, the choice was made to disseminate disinformation instead of the truth.
Agreed. I think a major aspect of the problem is that we need to see communicable disease as a group problem, not an individual problem. Perhaps that is part of what you are saying. The first commitment really did need to be hospitals and first responders. There were very serious shortages. Doctors and nurses were coming out of retirement to meet healthcare emergency, and many of these were in the aged range - specifically at higher risk and with hospitals not having adequate supplies of protection. First responders were wearing masks for many days when the normal procedure would be to change masks between patient contacts. Also, there were those in many places who didn't have access to the best masks. The policy recommendation allowed persons to wear gators, bandanas and other masks well known to be less effective, because something was better than nothing. We've had people wearing this pathetic mask types throughout the entire time period of the pandemic, well after policy has clearly stated that they do not protect enough and don't qualify against policy requirements. Let's also not forget that our highest leadership was countering what medical science was saying - and doing so repeatedly on EVERY subject. That was a serious problem for anyone trying to make policy, as every policy was decried by top political leaders - adding chaos to the attempt to defend against COVID. I'd point out that the main opposition concerning masks was the refusal and outrage by many to use any kind of mask whatsoever, regardless of whether it was valid response to airborne disease - plus the fact that our highest leaders refused to take part. Why would this NOT promote resistance, regardless of the policy in question? One can label many of these policy decisions as being suboptimal, but our primary action today needs to be preparation for the next pandemic. We needed to have those early decisions to have already been thoroughly thought out by the time that a pandemic arrived, rather than to have been made in an emergency context with leadership differences and outright dissention from political sources.
Health care was the first priority. There was no reason to tell lies. It was counterproductive. It’s why many never wore a mask. You can’t lie and then expect people to follow your advice later. You don’t trust Trump’s administration because they lied. Others don’t trust Fauci because he lied repeatedly. You can’t criticize one outfit for disinformation and give the other outfit a pass. Tribalism won’t protect anyone from pandemics either. It just makes the tribe members more vulnerable to snake oil from their own witch doctors. Believing Trump because Fauci is a known liar is dangerous. Believing Fauci because Trump is a known liar is dangerous. Nobody in government is going to “prepare”. Even if they tried, they have demonstrated they are either too stupid or too dishonest to prepare correctly. Oh, and there were no shortages of quality masks after December 2020.
Why not? They're not conspiracy theories, they are conspiracies. Conspiracy theories are so because there is no evidence. There are mountains of evidence, so the theory part can get dropped. Don't worry, it won't.
