The problem of Capitalism

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by stan1990, Mar 13, 2019.

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Do you agree that the main problem of Capitalism is of moral nature?

Poll closed Apr 12, 2019.
  1. Yes

    33.3%
  2. No

    50.0%
  3. Maybe

    16.7%
  1. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    Jawaharlal Nehru India previous prime minister wrote in his book "Glimpse of the World History" about the financial crisis and its dynamics. He mentioned that during 1931-1933, the total amount of coffee destroyed in Brazil was 14 million bags; 132 pound each, the total amount was over 1.848.000.000 pounds which more than enough to provide coffee at a discounted price to the whole of the world population. The plantation owners rather destroy the coffee than sell it at a discounted price regardless of the Great Depression.


    The coffee was one commodity among many others that destroyed in large quantities in order to keep the price high. We witness in our current time how retailers like Walmart destroy their excess food products with still valid expiry date instead of donating the items to charities or homeless shelters. The problem of Capitalism neither the distribution as Jawaharlal Nehru wrote in his book nor the production as others may think, but ethics and morals. The principles that Adam Smith established, (laissez-faire) and (The Invisible Hand) were misinterpreted and abused causing damage for the moral principles of a system supposed to secure a balanced world economy.


    We can view many examples of how Capitalism was misused to create a world of misery and pain for 99% of the world population. First, the production of Ethanol-85 known as E85 is one striking example of ignorance and selfishness. The process of producing the E85 isn’t cost-effective, and the return is below zero, it will consume too much fossil fuel energy to produce one unit of the Ethanol-85. It occupies acres that needed desperately to feed the increasing world population. Second, Meat industry using large sectors of the agricultural land to grow corn and Soybean to feed the cattle and poultry. Moreover, to free up needed space, they destroy forests and natural habitats for many endangered animal species and plants. Third, the phenomenon of political money, funding election campaign by corporations, financial institutions and wealthy businessmen lead to a less transparent system designed to guarantee the interest of the few on the expense of the many, the wealthy pay less or no taxes while the poor pair most of the tax burden.


    CBC(Canadian Broadcasting Corporation published headlines story about Tim’s Horton's franchise owner in the province of Ontario send a letter to employees containing termination of the paid work breaks among many other details. The letter signed by Ron Joyce Jr. and Jeri-Lynn Horton-Joyce, the son and daughter of the chain's co-founders, Ron Joyce and the late Tim Horton. The letter issued in response to the Ontario government decision to raise the minimum wages to $14.00 minimum wage on January 1, 2018, then $15.00 per hour on January 1, 2019. The franchise owner wealth estimated 1.4 billion Dollar only. MacDonald, a fast food franchise is planning to raise their prices in response to the 15 CAD minimum wage plans in Ontario province and even in some American states. What many didn't know is that 15-17 cents rise in the price of double Mac, one of the most popular meals, or 30-cent rise in average for fast food restaurant visit will be enough to cover the rise in the minimum wage with increasing the price of the meals.


    Many writers and intellectuals talked about the problem of Capitalism and the origin of the financial crisis, hundreds of thousands of articles in the newspapers, websites, interviews or T.V programs. However, none touches even the tip of the iceberg or provides a practical solution to deal with the mega-crises that hit the global economy more frequently with the passing time. The real answer for Capitalism problems could be found in practice more ethics and believe in self-consciousness to do the right thing at the right time.


    End
     
  2. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism's problem is that it requires and demands growth. The capitalist is always on guard against competitors and that reinforces greed. Thus, our top capitalists are not satisfied with having enough wealth to fund an extravagant, excessive, self-indulgent, "have it all" lifestyle for everyone of the progeny for the next 200 years, because what about the 201st generation?

    And to fund it they have no choice but to degrade OUR standard of living and find every way they can to "acquire" all our money that they can. Is this an extreme opinion? Just think about where income is going and how this economy has changed the quality of goods and services. Look at how you view the quality of your purchases. Heck, one example: your stapler. How long has capitalism been making staplers? Why are they crap today? When I was in school you could buy a regular, average stapler without worrying about whether it would work properly. I recently bought a SECOND high-priced stapler because the first one failed after a year. The new one doesn't work right, leaving the staple half complete with an incomplete bend no matter how hard it is squeezed.

    Profits are getting harder and harder to come by. So the capitalist bit by bit cuts corners to save a penny here and a penny there, reducing quality until the product is crap. The right winger says "buy a different stapler!" Except there is no readily-found good one at any price. Why do appliances often come with a 6-10-inch "pigtail" power cord? They "sell" it by claiming they do it for "safety" but how much more safe is it to connect the appliance to an extension so it reaches the power source? We know they actually do it to save 20¢ per unit. Multiply 20$ by 10 million units sold and see how much more they can profit from it . . . --how much more the CEO's bonus will be.

    The drive for growth, fueled by competitive pressure and greed, relegates "morals" to obscurity.
     
  3. james M

    james M Banned

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    China just switched to capitalism (after socialism had slowly starved 60 million to death) and instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty so its insane to talk about capitalism's problems. Without capitalist production most of the earth's 7.8 billion people would die off.
     
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  4. james M

    james M Banned

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    Thats what Marx said in 1850. Today profits are at record highs and there are 100 million corporations!! Marx killed 120 million and he is your hero??
     
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  5. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    Good comment
     
  6. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    The USSR achieved a growth rate without Capitalism. It isn't that simple when you speak about China. Capitalism doesn't exist anymore. It is replaced by corporatism.
     
  7. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    Great post and Yes, the Greed that froths from the mouths of those in charge is the problem, when they were regulated and taxed from 1935 - 1985 things went fine. Once a few Jewish Puppets from the Rothchilds clan, the JPmorgan, Goldman clan, and full on Zionist group got into Reagan's office it was just brilliant manipulation that got him to cut taxes along with Congress support. I remember my uncle, a well too do State Farm Agent at the time telling, or explaining to me how this will be the beginning of the end of the working people.
    They basically set up over the years 20 PLUS support Groups Mises University, Hertiage Foundation, Koch Brothers family foundation and so on. Within these groups there are over 100K people able to post online and it is their JOB to keep the status quo, ignore the poor guy on the street, or their cousin who didn't do good economically. They sell their souls for 100K a year, a little more than the avg. salary and as long as they are OK... F-it ! Not their problem....
    These people control all the Central Banks, 70% of all the money and americans should be smart enough to understand what is happening as they go thru yet another JOB, another NO raise season, another medical malfunction where some uber rich guy charges them 20,000% more than they deserve. It is sickening watching the Greed.
    They control the money, the media, and all the people, the people are just too stupid to know it...
     
  8. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    I really wish I had the time to sit around here posting hundreds of times a week like those paid to do so of the right wing neocon support groups. I can only look back here every couple of weeks and read more lies.
     
  9. james M

    james M Banned

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    Yes their growth rate was about 30% of ours. If they could not copy or inventions it would have been about 10% of ours. They lived in squalor. Socialism does not work. Ever heard of Cuba/Florida??
     
  10. james M

    james M Banned

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    When they replaced socialism with capitalism or corporatism or state capitalism they instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty. It makes AOC look rather illiterate doesn't it?
     
  11. james M

    james M Banned

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    its no lie!! when China switched to capitalism from libsocialism they instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty!
     
  12. james M

    james M Banned

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    People naturally require that. It's called evolution. We want our companies to grow and develop new cures for cancer and heart disease. We want better electronics so we don't die of boredom. I think most children would know better than your 19th Century Marxism that got 120 million killed.
     
  13. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    Hitler raised the living standard of the German people, do you think that it is a valid argument to Nazism? You can use the same argument for the Fascism or Communism. Your view of Capitalism is shallow and terrible.
     
  14. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    Ours, do you mean as Americans? The quick leap to growth that America witnessed is related more to the German scientists that captured during and after WW2. All technology and innovations that copied from the Nazis including F-117 Nighthawk. Another shallow and worthless argument.
     
  15. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    Thanks a lot for your comment
     
  16. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    ? I noticed some of these prepaid members. They write funny and providing a very weak argument.
     
  17. james M

    james M Banned

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    China just switched to capitalism and instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planet's poverty after libsocialism had killed 60 million. Do you understand?
     
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    IT IS ALL ABOUT MEASUREABLE INCOME DISPARITY

    Want to know the reason why?

    Try this on for size: Because the people discussing the matter of "Capitalism" confuse it as a political-subject. When it is a purely economic mechanism*.

    When an economic mechanism develops a singularly awful Income Disparity, that mechanism needs both attention and control. Control is best brought about by progressive income taxation, particularly of runaway upper-incomes.

    In the US, that "control mechanism" came apart with efforts by both JFK & Reckless Ronnie. The former reduced upper-income taxation (to please his father) and recieved Congressional approval to do so - but never signed the bill. His VP (Johnson) did that and earned ENORMOUS RESPECT from his Texan millionaire friends. The reduction was from around ninety percent to around seventy percent.

    A bit later (1980 to be exact) Reckless Ronnie was chosen stoopidly by the American voters, and he very firmly chopped upper-income taxation to around 30ù - and entered the Replicant Valhalla where statues were made to his honor.

    History of US income taxation rates:
    [​IMG]

    Both actions mentioned above served to enhance Income Disparity in the US. See that here when measured economically by the Gini Index. Which in turn looks like this when plotted:
    [​IMG]
    Disregarding Brazil and Mexico - note that the two-countries with highest Gini Index (and therefore the worst Income Disparity) are the US and China.

    Now, what do you have to say about that economic consequence? Why did it happen? How did it happen?

    Because the two countries are fundamentally different in terms of "market-economies" as well as politically:
    *China is not a functional democracy, whilst the US is (but one with extremely high Income Disparity).
    *China's economy is very heavily controlled and managed by one singular party, whereas the US is a diverse market-economy.
    *Both have very high incidences of Income Disparity as evidenced above.

    And finally, it is the third qualitative-factor above that is the most important. Income Disparity is a key measure of any economy. Note in the above infographic that those EU countries that have high taxation and large governmental disbursements (principally upon Healthcare and Higher Education) are those with lower Income Disparities ...

    *Devised by mankind that was sick&tired of barter to exchange goods.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    And from the above, it is just a hop-skip-and-a-jump to Income Disparity in the US. As shown here:
    [​IMG]
    The most important is that last column on the right showing the Avg. Effective Tax Rate. Note how, in the US, the effective rate at the top-end stops at 27% - when it should continue upward to confiscatory levels.

    There is simply no need whatsoever, in a fair and decent economy, for individuals to amass such amounts of money; and then employ them to manipulate political outcomes in order to maintain their unfair taxation levels!

    If you have a better solution, I'm all eyes ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    A COUNTRY'S POLITICAL MIXTURE

    First shall we start with a definition of Capitalism, because it seems to have different meanings for different people:
    From here:
    What is key is that last bit in italics above. In a Social Democracy, profit is not given the same importance: Definition of a Social Democracy:
    The italics above demonstrate the fundamental difference between the two definitions - the first being focalized on the individual and the latter on the group of individuals. Both being members of the same political entity - state or country.

    The difference between the two could not be more fundamental, the former being focused upon individual desires and the second upon the predominance of the will-of-the-people as a whole.

    And frankly that makes for a very great difference between the two entities, individual and collective on a societal level.
    The individual is concerned uniquely with the betterment of him/herself, whilst collectives are focused upon the fairness of a shared economic reality. (And both can coexist in the same state/country with each seeking political predominance.)

    This mixture in any country must therefore decide which of the two requires laws that define the nature of the limits and their liberties.
    The latter ("collective") likely being the one that requires more commonality in national objectives whilst the former is instinctually focused upon personal objectives ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Donor

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    So, for you it is a waste of time.

    You'd likely be happier on a Message Board, rather than a debate-forum. Both are expressive, but the latter takes considerable thought and application whilst the former needs only inane one-liner simplicism ...
     
  22. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    A good comment. Thanks
     
  23. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    A good and informative comment. Thanks for your time and efforts
     
  24. stan1990

    stan1990 Active Member

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    Do you have any idea what are you talking about?
     
  25. Jimmy79

    Jimmy79 Banned

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    Careful. You are putting the continued bigotry of the violent left on display
     

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