You know , Mak , that's a tough topic for discussion . . . it crosses over a lot of lines , you know ? When I joined PF as a BuzzDash refugee a few years ago , my Mom had suffered a serious injury from a fall , and rather than see her in a rest home , I came to her home and took care of her for the last 3 years of her life , and she was eating good every day and gaining weight ,,, until a cancerous scar from a surgery in her youth came upon her . . . she passed away just this past March 21 , this year , 5 + months ago... and we talked of this and related topics at length , about life , and the end of our days , and sorrow and grief and joy and beauty in the world , the flowers growing in her flower bed , , , the thrill of a tug of a fish on a line while at the lake , , the beauty of an Eagle overhead while on vacation , , , the memory of everyone she has ever Loved and cared about crosssed over to the other side , and knowing that she's probably the next one to go , and now that my Mom is gone , well , I turned 55 last month , PF Admin even sent me a card , but , most likely , I ain't got but 50 more years , so I'll pass this on to you and to whomever reads this ... You always count on that next breath , but one day , there just won't be a next breath . . . and I don't think that anyone short of Jesus Christ himself was ever really ready for it ... That is my observation and response to your good thread .
Hillbilly, I know it was hard and you have my respect. My mother took 29 days to die. My sister and I talked to her all the time but she couldn't respond.
Um actually yeah you did. You might want to consider the implications of what you are saying. If you are in a persistent vegetative state and have given no one any direction as to what to do, a judgment call has to be made. Otherwise you say the doctor and anyone else has NO right to take your life, but must keep you alive as a vegetable. So yeah you were saying that. LOL. You refuted yourself just now. Someone else is deciding you are dying with the death penalty, which to you is wrong unless the state does it... Be consistent please. Strawman. Not what I said. I said when someone is in a persistent vegetative state for an extended period of time (say around 10 years) then it's ok to kill them. Capital punishment is definitely murder then according to this standard. And some murder would be justified under my view, but you have given nothing to say when murder is and is not justified. Euthanasia - intentionally causing the death of a person, the motive being to benefit that person or protect him/her from further suffering. Assisted Suicide - helping a person kill him or herself. "The main difference between this and euthanasia is that in assisted suicide the patient is in complete control of the process that leads to death because he/she is the person who performs the act of suicide. The other person simply helps (for example, providing the means for carrying out the action). I still don't see how one is necessarily better than the other. The only difference is one is INTENTIONALLY killing, and the other is INTENTIONALLY giving the means to just do it myself. But the doctor knows that by his actions I will have the means to off myself in a very efficient way. If you knew that by giving me a gun I was going to shoot my best friend (because I had told you I would, and I had already killed other people in the past) and you gave me the gun knowing EXACTLY what I would do with it, it's not much different than you just killing my best friend yourself. Mercy killing of animals is seen as the best course of action when it is required, and humans should be afforded the same luxury. You are saying, it's fine if a doctor gives me pills to kill myself, but it's not OK to pull the plug on me if I am a vegetable for 20 years and told no one about my wishes. So like I said at the beginning, you want me to remain a vegetable until I die if I have told no one to pull the plug. I hope you are willing to pay the money for the health care!
I understand your emotional reaction to the issue. It still looks like a human being is there when things go south. But it's just a body with reactions without any consciousness going on when the vegetative state occurs persistently, sort of like "the lights are on, but no one is REALLY home." Even if you believe in an eternal soul, you are keeping it trapped on earth in extremely undignified conditions. Let it free into heaven, or wherever you believe souls go when the person dies.
Well since souls are religious nonsense, then there is nothing to go free. When a person dies, they are dead, gone, kaput. Just like they were before they were born, they will simply be non-existent.
If someone really wants to kill themselves, they're going to find a way to do it. Just don't expect loved to stand by and do nothing or doctors (whose job is to do no harm) to help with your suicide.
You would be surprised at how many doctors give just a little bit too much morphine to a patient to hurry their death.
I'd agree with this. And I know about the oath to protect life, but there is surely also an at least equally crucial ethical duty of care to the patient to prevent unnecessary suffering.
Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Their job is to help. In fact, many doctors give morphine overdoses knowing it will probably kill but wanting it for pain relief....... or at least that's what they claim. Letting a patient die in agony IS doing harm. And doctors will separate conjoined twins knowing that one will die. That's doing harm.
Doctors quite often do great harm deliberately. Keeping people alive in a vegetative state while being unable to cure them is one example. The medical profession has lost the plot in my opinion.
We need euthanasia clinics for those with the desire or need to die painlessly. Even Primitive apes treated their old and injured better than we do.
We only keep people alive because their families fight and insist their loved one will wake up even though they are brain dead. If someone is brain dead, life support should be removed, no matter what the family say.
Yeah but I was just appealing to the guy who was religious. I'm not personally. Within the context of religion, I was pointing out euthanasia can still be supported.
People are dying because of lack of medical treatment. It makes no sense for Americans to be forcing people to live who do not want to, while the homeless die in the streets from lack of shelter or medical care. Keeping old people alive in a hospital is extremely expensive. That money could be spent saving 10 other people's lives.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=143115170 ALS is a horrible disease. She should be able to make her own choice.
I would hate to live with such a terrible illness. I doubt she will win - the religious groups think they have a right to force sick people to stay alive - but if she loses I hope there is someone out there to help her.
I've never felt the need to have some government jackass grant me the "right" to kill myself. I can take care of it myself. My real problem would be with people like Buried & Me who want to kill peope with immunity. They call it euthanasia but it's the killing of someone who has not expressed a wish to die right then. That's murder. It's you deciding someone's life isn't worth living. Or, it's you deciding it's high time you got your inheritance. Assisted-suicide: yes. Murder (even by another name): no.
In every nation in which euthanasia is legal, it is ONLY done with the permission of the individual, or with those to whom they have legally given that right. Euthanasia is NOT murder, but not allowing euthanasia when it is needed is torture, pure and simple. To force a person to endure horrible pain, is far worse then the peaceful ending of their life.
I think that this raises the question as to what grounds there are for Euthanasia, is it merely the privelage of those whom are in the throes of fatal diseases and such like? Surely it is a man's inalienable right to control and therefore terminate his own body, regardless of the state of wellbeing that body was in. If we allow Euthanasia for the sick we cannot deny it to those who are perfectly healthy.
Interesting claim. I've contemplated this myself and I'm undecided on whether we should allow people, who are otherwise healthy, to off themselves simply because they choose to do so. What reasons do you have for the claim?
But Andrew, if someone is perfectly healthy yet wishes to end their life, they are usually diagnosed with depression, as wanting to end your life while healthy generally means there is a problem.
