The Spiral Of The Civilization

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by ibshambat, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. ibshambat

    ibshambat Banned

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    There is the logic of the line – create the fastest route between Point A and Point B. There is also the logic of the circle – that of tracing a distance from the center to all all points at that distance from the center. Combining the two is the spiral that repeats cyclically around X and Y dimensions while trending upwards along the Z dimension.

    The civilization can be seen to reflect the spiral. The natural cycles of life – birth, youth, adulthood, old age and death – and all the social concerns associated with the preceding, keep repeating cyclically. Whereas scientifically and economically the civilization builts on itself, using the linear logical mind to realize an ongoing improvement. Technological progress is therefore linear. Whereas socially, what we appear to see is cyclical, with each generation fulfilling the needs particular to its age and then morphing into the needs of the next age, to be replaced eventually with the next generation.

    Progress is seen therefore as being both technological and social. I do not believe that there is such a thing as social progress. Societies change all the time in all sorts of ways and for all sorts of reasons. There are natural and social dynamics that we see expressed at the natural and social level (dimensions X and Y) and there are man-made dynamics that are expressed in science and technology (dimension Z). The first is cyclical, the second is linear. Together they form the spiral of civilization.

    The social situation is frequently the function of whatever age group is dominant. We see this especially with the baby boomers – the generation around which the world has revolved for over half a century. When they were young, the social attitudes were very relaxed, and many believed that what was happening was progress toward greater freedom and women’s equality. When they became parents themselves, they created a much more striated climate – either to protect or to control their children. This is not an anomaly, and the same thing happened in 19th century with transition from Romanticism to Victorianism and in early 20th century with transition from Bohemian period to 1930s, 1940s and 1950s. Every generation makes its cyclical progression through the ages; and every age has its own needs.

    At the same time, each generation possesses its own character. The World War II generation lived under many different ideologies, but everywhere it possessed the same character – hard-working, family oriented and nationalistic. The baby boom generation has been seen as a bunch of selfish brats both in America and in the former Soviet Union. There are reasons for this, that I am not going to go into at this time. However we all see different character in different generations.

    Each generation raises its children the way that it wanted itself to be raised. It rarely works, as their children are not them. The World War II generation, growing up in a depression and a war, wanted to provide its children peace and prosperity; but their children wanted freedom. The hippies gave their children freedom, but their children wanted stability and structure. Each saw its ways as an improvement upon the preceding and, in some cases, as progress. It was no such thing; in all cases it was a fad.

    Social conditions are therefore cyclical in nature. Whereas economic and technological progress is in fact linear. We are both creatures of lines and creatures of circles, and together they form a spiral.
     
  2. Kokomojojo

    Kokomojojo Well-Known Member

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    hardly, life should include all of them at once, not have to fight for scraps of bread then cheese and thenmilk that should have been included in the package in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  3. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe that technological progress is linear, though maybe there are ways of looking at it that seem linear. Too many technologies proceed on an exponential curve.

    I'd be interested if you could cite evidence of that.

    " I do not believe that there is such a thing as social progress. Societies change all the time in all sorts of ways and for all sorts of reasons. "

    That seems contradictory. And, American society has clearly progressed over the years in serious and lasting ways.
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The events of the Vietnam war era were absolutely not a fad.

    That war was an abject slaughrer of human life including our own. Our children were required to go there and die without so much as a VOTE. We STILL have Americans suffering from direct effects such as being deluged in agent orange and returning with serious and poorlly understood mental trauma. Any response toward stopping that was FULLY justified. That includes pushing back on our government that was finding annd forceing individual kids to go and be fodder - doing so on threat of serious jail time. Did that change? Absolutely. It ended the draft, for one thing. It got us out of Vietnam for another.

    On top of that, technology gave us reliable methods of contraception, which raised questions that were poorly answered by previous generations. Our society today is informed by our experience then and since.

    And, let's not forget the war the administration was fighting against black leaders such as MLK Jr., with the FBI tapping his phone and spreading lies about him to reduce the power of his message. (Along with numerous other such assaults by our government on minority leadership.)

    The fact that few wear bellbottom pants anymore does NOT write off that era and what we learned then as a "fad".

    In fact, history in Vietnam is seriously informative of what happens when we take actions such as conquering Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.

    So, yes our society didn't get the whole message. But, that's not an excuse for calling lessons "fads" or suggesting that society never changes.

    We as a society do not learn fast. We have to make the same mistaks a few times before we get the lesson. But, that doesn't mean we don't ever get the message. We absolutely DO change.
     
  5. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    social progress in the south in regards to racism so it does exist.

    I witnessed it .
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  6. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and it's broader than the South.

    I grew up in OR, which joined the union with a law that made it illegal for any black to enter the state - whether or not they were slaves.

    That was early, but ...

    While that was early, that opinion lasted for a long time and probably is a contribution to the unus
     
  7. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    Physics is the only thing that drives us forward !!
    With new discoveries come new inventions and technologies !!
    Without physics : it’s all horses, and death about 30
    Thank a physicist not a moronic Hollywood drug addict
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what the point is here.

    And, I'm not excited about comparing a physicist to a "Hollywood drug addict".
     
  9. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    And how is that “forward?”
     
  10. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    Do you want to live in a World again of no electricity or cars
     
  11. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Do you measure human progress according to technological advancement?
     
  12. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    No ... tech is one part but civil rights and democracy is far bigger
     
  13. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It's forward in terms of the breadth of understanding of our physical universe.

    What we do wth that knowledge is a different topic.
     
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  14. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    They do? I tried drawing them on each other. I got nowhere near a spiral.

    You make some interesting and cogent observations but they don't hang together like you're saying. Sorry, this isn't really even a very good metaphor, I can't see it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  15. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    :confusion::confusion:
     
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  16. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Physics does not address issues of society - government, psychology, sociology, economics, etc.

    I'd also point out that biology was bringing about huge change in human civilization long before the study of physics was affecting human lives.
     
  17. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Will people use flying cars to pick up my their anti-depressants?
     
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  18. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The problem of extending traffic congestion into the sky is not going to be solved easily.

    I think the technology for building a car that can fly is not even close to the hard part.

    Plus, there are a lot of uses for airspace above cities - deliveries, emergency response, policing, etc.

    So, I am a doubter.
     
  19. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    It would work only with Super Conductors !!!
    IT would run on Magnetic Energy and you would be hooked into sky bridges.
    Some genius needs to develop SC at room temp because it wont work now.
     
  20. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    I may not understand your idea.

    How is that different from bridges? It does sound like your idea would be far more lightweight than normal bridges, which would be a big win.

    When I hear "flying cars" I think of independent pods that can navigate through the lower atmosphere.
     
  21. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    Its being moved by magnetic energy above the cars by giant magnets .
    Google it.. I am not a scientist but I heard Michio Kaku discuss this a ton
     
  22. Quasar44

    Quasar44 Banned

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    This should be a reality later in the century or early next
     

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