The Strange Ambush of Team Rock Mat, Vietnam 1970

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by US Conservative, Jun 2, 2019.

  1. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An amazing story about a Marine long range reconnaissance patrol in Vietnam.

    The narrator says this isn't widely known outside of the veteran community.

    All sides faced similar ambush!

     
  2. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The narrator at 1:21 said "The Marines M-16 assault rifles were locked and loaded."

    Back in 1970 the M-16 was never called an assault rifle since it didn't meet the military definition as being an assault rifle.

    Only two rifles ever met the definition of being an assault rifle. The German Sturmgewehr-44 and the AK-47.

    The phrase "Lock and Loaded" though still used today was first coined with the M-1 Garand rifle when you would pull the bolt back and locked the bolt in the open position so you could insert a 8 round ammunition clip into the magazine.

    The phrase would still be used with the M-14 and M-16 but you didn't have to pull the bolt back and lock it into the open position to insert an ammunition magazine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
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  3. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    AR had you heard this story before?

    What round for tiger?

    I'd pick the M-14. Same punch as the Garand but with a 20 round magazine, and if needed could be fired full automatic.
     
  4. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There were more than a few tiger stories in Vietnam.

    I never saw a live tiger but more than a few cobras, pythons, vipers and a whole crap load of rats.

    But did see some soldiers from the Americal Division driving around showing off the tiger they killed in the bush. It was a crown gather for American troops.

    For those who saw combat using both the M-14 and M-16, the vast majority preferred the M-14.

    Those who also served during WW ll and or Korea and also served in Vietnam preferred the M-1 Garand.

    The M-1 Garand chambered for the 30-06 was just a little more powerful and accurate with a tighter group than the M-14.

    If you were to put the rear sights of an 03-Springfield on a M-1 Garand you would have a 1,000 yard rifle.
    The same would be true with the M-14.
     
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  5. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is wild!
     
  6. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The rear sights of the 1903 Springfield rifle.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    a Top Volley "U" Notch 2850 yards
    b "U" Notch 1400 to 2750 yards
    c Battle Sight Notch 400 to 530 yards
    d
    Bottom Sight Notch 100 to 2450 yards
    e Peep Sight 100 to 2350 yards
    f Windage Scale Eleven per side (each marking equals 4 minute of angle at 100 yards)

    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3vgQuY3vA0FMlVOcmE3NS1Lbkk/edit?pli=1
     
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  7. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nice. They really intended to get every last bit of use out of the rifle and sights.

    If I knew a tiger was coming after me, I'd start with volley fire at 2850 yards.

    Took my new 6.5 creedmore rifle out to lytle creek yesterday-that thing was hitting spot on.
     
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  8. Crownline

    Crownline Well-Known Member

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    Lytle creek? Man that name brings back memories.
     
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  9. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yup. There is STILL snow on some of those peaks in June. Mainly northern and eastern slopes.
     
  10. Crownline

    Crownline Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t been shooting up there since the mid ‘80’s, before it was shut down.
     
  11. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I camped up there in the 80's and 90's.

    Its an odd situation there now. They can operate the range but can't sell ammo (they have racks of it) because on that land, they can't get a mailing address. Something crazy like that.

    I've noticed lots of professional grade drones flying through the canyons there all winter.
     
  12. APACHERAT

    APACHERAT Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you think that the U.S. military should adopt the 6.5 Creedmore ?
     
  13. US Conservative

    US Conservative Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I do and they are. Its a game changer.

    Double the hit probability at 1000 yards.

    Trajectory similar to .300 win mag with less weight and recoil.

    Can feed from a .308 magazine with very sleek/long/pointy bullets. Should be easy enough for the military to develop AP loads.

    Lighter weight in machine guns with better range and accuracy than soviet era guns that are harassing troops.

    The designated marksman rifles we saw in iraq (accurized AR10's, 15's, and M14's) now get to push their range out to 800+ yards with much less wind drift.

    That covers the gap between general small arms capabilities and long range sniper type rifles which are still usually bolt actions. The creedmore uses the same mags.
     
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