The Trinity debunked by Jesus himself.

John 8:48-56

48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”


This is just one of many examples of Jesus going out of his way to explain the fact that he is a messenger and not the Creator. By Jesus' own words there is no foundation for the doctrine of the trinity. Is there any "quote" by Jesus that would support this perversion of the message he was actually speaking?

 

More for you:

Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34
My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 16:19
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

John 8:40
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God.

John 14:28
My Father is greater than I.

John 20:17
I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Acts 17:31
Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

1 Corinthians 11:3
The head of Christ is God.

1 Corinthians 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Colossians 3:1
Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 3:21-22
Jesus Christ: who is ... on the the right hand of God.

 

How does any of that "debunk" the trinity?

 

It doesn't. All the verses prove is that Jesus and God the father are not the same person of the trinity.

 

Yahushua came out of YAH, so does YAH's Spirit. 1x1x1= 1 - all over the world..

 

So you are suggesting that the Trinity is really the Quatrinity.

God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost (whomever that is), and Trinity.

You fail at theology. Don't come back unless you have a suitable explanation for your nonsense.

- - - Updated - - -

Because it wasn't any part of Jesus's teachings. Why would he neglect such an important part of theology if he believed it?

 

That value does not increase the value of "1". So there is no superior value to the teachings of the Trinity than there is to the teachings of Jesus. The Trinity is nowhere in the Bible, and has little value.

 

This like saying a trio of friends and the trio is merely a fourth person. The trinity merely explains the relationship of the three persons of the trinity. If you read the Gospels, you'll find there are several examples of Christ claiming to be God, but you'll also find examples of Christ claiming God to be greater than him.



Because it wasn't any part of Jesus's teachings. Why would he neglect such an important part of theology if he believed it?[/QUOTE]

Since you quoted John, here's a verse that may interest you:

 

While this argument has been going on for centuries, it is all the result of Synods held 400 or 500 years AFTER the death of Christ. Let's face it, the New Testament is nothing but reproductions of letters produced many years after the deaths of the authors.

The most common presentations show God the Father ruling heaven, Jesus Christ His Son, at his side, and The Holy Spirit as a dove, somehow indicating an ethereal being.

What is so blasted had to understand about that?

 

so which one is correct? and why would god be confused about it?

 

You said it, not me.

You're suggesting that the Trinity is a person, separate from Jesus and God.

Sorry, but you don't find that. That is the point of this topic. You could argue he claims "attributes" similar to God's. But nowhere does he claim to be "The Father".

Even with an allegoric interpretation he says no such thing as I am the Father who created all things. The verses you posted just support my argument.

 

Actually, they are:

Matthew 9:2-6, Mark 2:3-12
Jesus ... said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth ... That ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.

John 5:16-18
Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John 10:30-31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

John 10:38-39
The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.

John 14:9
He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Colossians 1:16
For by him [Jesus] were all things created.

Colossians 2:9
For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

1 Timothy 3:16
God was made manifest in the flesh.

Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Revelation 1:17
Fear not; I am the first and the last.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

 

They are one person
They are two, alone
They are three, together
They are for each other

--Corsby, Stills and Nash

 

That is not what christians say. All 3 are 1. Not separate.

 

Do you realize that you have just copy-pasted a refutation to your earlier copy-paste?

 

Haha! Good point!

 

It's disputed that Paul wrote all the letters attributed to him, but the general consensus is that most of the letters were in fact written by Paul. As we don't know when the authors died and the dating of the gospels is a hypothesis and not a fact, it's really difficult to say.

 

sigh .... I love that corny old folk tune

Incidentally, the last line of the chorus can be read as:

They are FOUR each other, carrying the count forward.

 

The hard part is that they're all the same being, they're not to be regarded as separate. That way they still fit into the Jewish concept. "The Lord Our God, the Lord is One," but that also means they're not just different versions of the same thing either. Nor are they Krishna's differing "Aspects" Your way of looking at it is the main muslim objection to Christianity, they say the Trinity is just polytheism disguised..

I've always read that the Trinity was put in by the Synods you mention to make them Christianity fit better into Platonism. The Holy Ghost in particular, has little Biblical backing but strongly resembles Plato's Demiurge

 

HEY!!

I got an idea!!!

How about EVERYONE has got it wrong!!??

The saddest thing I can think of is how people cannot consider the possibility that it is entirely possible the existence of Spirituality does NOT need any construct of a GOD.

As well....spirituality itself might not exist.

But one thing I am fairly certain of...Christian's, Jew's and Muslim's ALL HAVE IT WRONG.

AboveAlpha

 

There is, paradoxically, no right or wrong in religion. All Faiths seek the same thing, just in differing ways.

To return to the Trinity I have heard that some see it in man, the image of God. Body (Jesus) Mind (Father) Spirit (Holy Ghost). A Triune nature. However, that seems to rob it of its essential mystery to me.

This can be a fun subforum. Sometimes returning to the 4th century, when people actually had knock down drag out fights over this kind of esoterica. The problem is that the outcome of real religious fanaticism is very rarely even close to a laughing matter.

 

When I read threads like this, I often wonder if God the Mother is looking down and laughing at us.

 

Do you realize the Bible contradicts itself and I use whatever contradiction I see fit at the moment to make a point?

If I wanted to claim the earth came before man, I would use Gen 1:1. If I wanted to claim man came first, I would use Gen 2:1.

Do you get the point?

 

trinity I suppose is like reincarnation, the body is just a shell for the spirit... Jesus was no different then you or I

 

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28:19&version=NIV

Hahaha! Apparently some people just don't understand the English language.