Their children were killed by an opioid addict.

Discussion in 'Human Rights' started by LafayetteBis, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the Guardian: Their children were killed by an opioid addict. They changed the entire system

    I am writing from France to recount how the above could not have happened here. Yes, we have road-accidents caused by drunken drivers and those on too many pills. But nobody, and I mean NOBODY, gets from a Doctor a prescription of opioids that they can employ multiple times!

    Whyzzat?

    Because we have a National Health Service and you can go to any doctor (subscribing to the NHS) who will provide you specific care for whatever ails you. But, if ever they write a prescription (needed for opioid medicines), it cannot be used more than once. (And as regards opioids particularly, the prescription will have only the amount necessary to treat you specifically - meaning you must see that Doctor - and only that doctor - for a repeat treatment. (Which mean all addiction is done through illegal sales. Get caught buying the drugs and you go to jail along with the seller!)

    Moreover, your treatment will be fully paid by the National Health Service, so once your prescription is full it is nullified. You cannot use it again, and again, and again.

    National healthcare costs in France half that of the US because the prices of both medication and medical services are set by the government. (Not to worry, French doctors hear a good salary.) So, the National Healthcare Systems are the PRINCIPLE REASON why Europeans have a lifespan four years more than the US. (See that fact portrayed in this infographic here.)
     
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  2. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think you’re overselling the relevance of having a National Health system in this issue. None of the policies and systems necessary to minimise the risk of this specific problem automatically result from having a National system and, as the ultimate outcome in California shows, the US system doesn’t fundamentally prevent such systems being put in to place.

    There is certainly no justification for doctors working at the same hospital not to have access to records of patients prescriptions written within that same hospital (and general medical records for that matter) regardless of the underlying funding system or the existence of any state or national registers.
     
  3. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I mentioned that, aside from this particular issue regarding opioids, the National Health Systems in Europe are key fact in having expanded the average life-span four years beyond that of the US.

    Isn't that enough? And, if not. Tell me why Americans should pay far, far more to (for instance) visit a doctor in the US? From here:
    I pay $25 here in France.

    The cost of private-insurance (to corporations) is extremely expensive, and companies recuperate that cost in "overhead" reimbursed by the cost-plus-profit price of goods/services. (A GP in the US makes an average of $200K a year.)

    You (plural) are literally playing through the nose, and it is not just an ordinary nose-bleed ...

    The central registries of personal information are protected by a very tight set of rules and state-oversight in Europe. There's no problem now that most such personal information is on a state-owned server somewhere. It was once all on paper, and that was easy to get at by prying eyes.

    But, the point I am trying to get across is that a National Identity Card can be a good help to police-forces anywhere in the world that they exist. And, of course, they exist all over Europe.

    And to this day, I have never heard a European complain that all his personal information was a on a computer somewhere. It just doesn't matter ...
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
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  4. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not saying that at all and I generally support European style healthcare systems, I just think you're overselling the differences fundamental to the general form of system when they're going to be a consequence of a whole range of factors, some entirely unrelated to the healthcare system itself. The applies to your assertion that the incident reported couldn't happen in France and your new assertion that differences in life-span are entirely (or even exclusively) due to different structured healthcare systems.

    It's a dangerous argument because it focuses all the attention in the wrong direction, triggering pointless political arguments while ignoring improvements that could be made anywhere, regardless of the underlying systems.
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Differences in life-span ARE directly related to health-care, and how much you get. When it is so almightly expensive in the US, you end up in the "ER".

    Which makes for a good TV-series, but not good Healthcare!

    [/QUOTE]It's a dangerous argument because it focuses all the attention in the wrong direction, triggering pointless political arguments while ignoring improvements that could be made anywhere, regardless of the underlying systems.[/QUOTE]

    The only improvement necessary in the US is cheaper healthcare-costs so that more people can take advantage of it.

    It's become desperate necessity of Americans nowadays to value anything and everything in terms of dollars-'n-cents leading to who has got all the dollars vs who has got just cents!

    There are two primordial public services in the world. They both key to a good-and-long life for both you and your family. They are, quite simply, National Health Care as well as National Tertiary Level Education.

    But, nope, we Yanks in the US refuse to see the lessons that have been learned in Europe that underline the above assertion.

    Well, I tell you this: Find me a Yank who has spent at least ten years in Europe and, as regards the above, I'll show you a Yank who agrees more with me than you ...
     
  6. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You’re saying the USA has absolutely no problems with diet, lifestyle, violent crime, drug abuse or suicide and no efforts to improve in those areas could possibly improve general life expectancy at all?

    Also, making healthcare more affordable to patients on the ground wouldn’t automatically require a complete shift to a European style system and just shifting the system without any specific focus or direction would just cost vast amounts of money, cause massive disruption to services and trigger all sorts of political distractions. It is not a magical solution to their problems (just as it isn’t a magical solution to ours).

    My opinions on this question is influenced by working in the NHS, including alongside American colleagues. If there was really a single simple step to magically improve healthcare in the US, the people working in healthcare there wouldn’t be screaming out for it? There are plenty of improvements to their system they are calling for but there is no demand for such a fundamental shift as your describe but they know that won’t work.
     

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