Timeline to Ukraine War

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by yangforward, Feb 2, 2024.

  1. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Feb 24 2022

    Biden's Version of the Timeline:
    Without provocation Etc. Russian brutally
    attacks the people of Ukraine
     
  2. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A longer timeline
    (I've used excerpts from Dr. Jeffrey D. Sachs, Special to The Kennedy Beacon)

    August 24, 1991. Ukraine declares independence on the basis of the 1990 Declaration of State Sovereignty, which includes the pledge of neutrality.

    1991 December 26 USSR dissolution -
    Ukraine's independence formally recognized.

    February 1, 2008. US Ambassador to Russia William Burns sends a confidential cable to U.S. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, entitled “Nyet means Nyet: Russia’s NATO Enlargement Redlines,” emphasizing that “Ukraine and Georgia's NATO aspirations not only touch a raw nerve in Russia, they engender serious concerns about the consequences for stability in the region.”

    The original cable can found by searching: nyet means nyet Russia
     
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  3. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why is NATO expansion considered a threat by Russia?
    (another excerpt from Jeffrey D. Sachs, Special to the Kennedy Beacon)

    April 3, 2008. NATO declares that Ukraine and Georgia “will become members of NATO.” Russia declares that “Georgia’s
    and Ukraine’s membership in the alliance is a huge strategic mistake which would have most serious consequences for
    pan-European security.”

    August 20, 2008. The US announces that it will deploy ballistic missile defense (BMD) systems in Poland, to be followed later
    by Romania. Russia expresses strenuous opposition to the BMD systems.
     
  4. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The BMD systems are Aegis Ashore configured to launch anti ballistic missiles
    though originally designed for Tomahawk nuclear armed missiles, and
    allegedly can be reconfigured for Tomahawk missiles.

    Russia wants to inspect the sites to check they are not fitted with
    Tomahawk missiles but the US has refused to allow inspections.

    It is argued that the locations are better suited to attacking Russia
    than to anti ballistic missile defense, which arouses suspicions.
     
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  5. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Please notice that all of the complaints focus on what Russia wants not on what the Ukraine wants.
     
  6. Shutcie

    Shutcie Newly Registered Donor

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    The Cuban missile crisis followed pretty much the same timeline, except that it was Turkey and not Ukraine, and Cuba and not Ukraine.
     
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  7. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Here is a simple plan that would not only end the war but would ease the worries of both Russia and the Ukraine:

    Both Russia would agree that:

    nether would join NATO or allow NATO forces to operate within their boundaries or move through their territory
    both would agree to return to the boundaries recognized in 1991 by the two countries and supported by the Belavezha Accords
    each would with draw all troops and forces from the agreed boundaries of the other
    both sides would agree to stop shelling, bombing or making any military moves across the other's border
    both sides would agree not to support with arms, money or other means anti government in the other's territory
     
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  8. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Russia has suffered the loss of 40,000, perhaps more, soldiers to
    stop Western and Central Ukraine from killing Russian-speaking
    civilians in Donetsk and other populated areas in Eastern and
    Southern Ukraine.

    Those areas have ceded into Russia to gain protection from further
    shelling.

    They are not willing to move back into Kyiv domination.

    I like that you are pro-peace, that is good to see, sorry that I'm
    disputing what might be considered a detail.
     
  9. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now that the USSR has broken up we can get a lot closer to our target

    Missiles Turkey vs Ukraine to Moscow.png
     
  10. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Who ceded this area to Russia?
    How many soldiers did Russia lose other than those who invaded Ukraine?
     
  11. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Speaking of Aegis system, don't forget what happened to the USS Donald Cook in April 2014. What really happened to the USS Donald Cook in the Black Sea? (thesurvivalmovement.com)
     
  12. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both sides can claim a victory in the Donald Cook encounter:
    Russia for a system that meets specification
    and the US weapons maker for making a profit.
     
  13. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The crucial error was to believe that threatening Russia would keep Russia
    out of Ukraine, whereas the exact opposite happened.

    And after Feb 24th 2022 when Russia moved military units in to protect
    Donetsk, and to show intent moving towards Kyiv,

    our politicians have doubled down on the mistake, and since 300 million
    dollars in weapons and munitions didn't dissuade Russia, we moved the
    ante up by a factor of 300 times, and that didn't help at all.

    In the 8 years from Feb 2014 when we installed a US friendly regime in
    Kyiv and Feb 2022 Russia did not move any main military units in, so
    during the time we didn't threaten Russia it was far more peaceful than
    it was after we threatened Russia.

    Threatening Russia was a bad idea all around.
     
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  14. yangforward

    yangforward Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Biden Administration feels safe from criticism for an unsuccessful
    venture in Ukraine, because:

    1. They claim to be winning and the media is backing this claim; it
    has been lying nonstop now for 22 months.

    2. They also claim to have not made the decision for war, but that
    Pres. Putin did, on his own, and without provocation or justification
    make the decision for war.


    That Russia moved in a force only a quarter of the size of the UAF,
    seems to confirm that the intention was to protect Donbass and
    Crimea, and I find that evidence compelling but maybe it didn't
    get covered in the media.

    Biden also wants a war with China, with Iran, and Yemen, and to
    supply the weapons to kill Palestinians.

    I predict we will lose some more allies over the next few months.
     
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  15. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    The MSM has been lying incessantly for many decades, and that lying started long before 11 September 2001.
     
  16. Talon

    Talon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Timeline to Russian Invasion of Ukraine

    Part I, 2014: Revanchist warmonger in the Kremlin who likens himself to Peter the Great decides he wants the naval base at Sevastopol for the Russian Black Sea Fleet, violates the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 and seizes the naval base at Sevastopol and the surrounding Crimean Peninsula.

    Part II, 2022: Revanchist warmonger in the Kremlin decides he wants a land bridge to the Crimean Peninsula and the naval base at Sevastopol, invades Ukraine.
     

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