To bad the supreme court ruled you can't set a limit on money spent to campaign

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by hudson1955, Jul 7, 2018.

  1. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2012
    Messages:
    107,541
    Likes Received:
    34,488
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hillary proved that money does not buy an election.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
    Idahojunebug77 and Honky Kong like this.
  2. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That’s why we have social safety net programs.
     
  3. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,576
    Likes Received:
    2,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No it’s not why. Those statistics are with those “social safety net programs” that the criminals in the US government want eliminated.
     
  4. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2015
    Messages:
    12,114
    Likes Received:
    5,379
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hillary spent 1 BILLION DOLLARS. What's your problem? Who's cozy with Goldman Sachs?
     
  5. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And you make my point. “Poverty” in the US is not a bad state. Try poverty in Ethiopia.
     
  6. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You know, a recent SC ruling got me thinking on this...
    If money is speech, and things like forced union dues count as compelled speech and a violation of the first amendment...
    doesn't that mean that a lot of other common things count as first amendment violations as well... including taxation?

    Seriously folks, are we approaching the point at which taxation itself gets declared a violation of the first amendment?
    Though I suppose in that case the first amendment would be superseded by the sixteenth amendment or Article I, Section 8, Clause 1?
    But who's to say for sure really... and then... what about state and local taxes? Is every state and locality in the union guilty of an ongoing violation the first amendment?

    -Meta
     
  7. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Relative Privation

    -Meta
     
  8. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Privation in the US is living in a resort to privation in Ethiopia.
     
  9. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Contributions from cumulative union dues are not representative of ~ 1/3 of union members. Corporations make very little political contributions and they spread those contributions around.
     
  10. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, ~ $770M was spent by the Hillary campaign and ~ $400M was spent by Trump.
     
  11. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Doesn't matter how you justify it, a fallacy is a fallacy.

    -Meta
     
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Is state and local taxation a violation of the First Amendment?
    I'm not trying to defend unions here, simply questioning the particular reasoning that was used against them.

    -Meta
     
  13. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,576
    Likes Received:
    2,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You don’t have any point, just a straw man. Poverty in Ethiopia doesn’t change poverty in the US among the elderly. No one was comparing nor was it part of any discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  14. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That’s the truth. It’s much better to be at 250% of the poverty level in the US than in Ethiopia, no ??
     
  15. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It certainly puts perspective on it. The definition of poverty is a political football. The war on poverty has failed and only succeeded in creating a relatively constant % of the population dependent on government programs.
     
  16. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. Why would it be ??
     
  17. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The price of tea in China is between $10-$100 US.
    That's the truth. But much like your truth it has no bearing on the conversation.
    Such is the flaw when a Relative Privation argument is used. It merely has the appearance of being related to the topic,
    when in fact it is wholly unable to be used for forming any valid points. A distraction from the true discussion in other words.

    -Meta
     
    rahl likes this.
  18. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    For the same reason mandatory Union Dues are considered a violation of the First Amendment.
    'Money is speech, forcing someone to pay money is compelling speech, and therefor is a violation of the First amendment'.
    Or would you consider that to be faulty reasoning??

    -Meta
     
  19. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,155
    Likes Received:
    655
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Being a shareholder in a corporation is voluntary. If one doesnt like how the corporation manages its money and affairs they can simply sell their share in the company.

    Banning political spending by corporations would also ban political spending by unions, special interest groups, and anyone wanting to give a couple of dollars to a political action cause. Who would be left to disseminate political information? Only the individual's own campaign and the so called news media.
     
  20. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good points, though it should be noted that instituting Public Campaign Financing is always an option.

    -Meta
     
  21. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What conversation ?? The contention is that poverty in the US is life threatening. It is not. In Ethiopia however poverty is life threatening.
     
  22. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,438
    Likes Received:
    8,813
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That’s ridiculous.

    Almost as ridiculous as claiming that pointing out that a post is an example of Trump Derangement Syndrome is the same as calling a person deranged.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  23. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2015
    Messages:
    8,576
    Likes Received:
    2,337
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Not if a law was properly written. The only entities who vote are human beings, not groups or corporations. The only ones who should have the legal capability to engage in political spending should be those who vote. And even then there should be reasonable limits otherwise billionaires could outspend ordinary voters. The same should be true for lobbies. If The People are supposed to be the masters of their government they should be the only entities involved. And because they aren’t we have a corporatocracy (fascist) form of government and not the Constitutional Republic guaranteed by the Constitution.
     
  24. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    To clarify, in case it wasn't already clear...
    Ethiopia has no effect on/nothing at all to do with whether or not poverty in the U.S. is life threatening.

    -Meta
     
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,633
    Likes Received:
    1,738
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Can't say that I disagree with you there...

    Sill though, I'm curious, exactly why do you think that line of reasoning is ridiculous?

    -Meta
     

Share This Page