U.S. debt at $33.5 Trillion (October 2023)

no it doesn't, the rich pay less taxes per dollar earned then the middle class

 

LOL!!! W.Bush was in office from Jan 2001 to 2008. The lowest deficit was under Clinton in 2000 (source). And in addition, the first year of a presidency is running on the last president’s results since the fiscal year ends in September.

The problem is BOTH. Our taxes in the US are LOW by both international comparison and our own historical levels.

The problem with raising taxes is that the rich are now rich enough to successfully fight any increase in their income taxes.

 

Oh, yeah, I forgot the GOP he'd Clinton's spending down and surplus SS/Medicare taxes gave Clinton a coup of teeny surpluses.

Nonsense. First off why should we give a crap about what other countries do? When in the past did we ever have the revenue we have now?

And yet as a group the top ten percent pay nearly 40% of ALL tax revenue.

 

Nope. The numbers say otherwise.

 

no they don't

 

Please review the link in #17.

 

#17 does not include all income....

 

Sorry, but it does.

 

doesn't include investment income and break it down to a percent of dollar earned

 

And again, no. The facts are otherwise.
"The federal government collects revenues from a variety of sources such as:

• Individual income taxes – the largest source of tax revenues and half of total annual receipts. Income taxes are levies on wages and salaries, income from investments, and other income.
• Payroll taxes, which help to finance Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment benefits, are the second-largest source of federal revenues and make up about one-third of total receipts annually. Payroll taxes are deducted from workers' paychecks through a line item called FICA, which stands for the Federal Insurance Contributions Act.
• The government also collects taxes on the profits of corporations. In 2021, the effective corporate tax rate at the federal level was 20 percent
• Excise taxes are indirect levies upon transactions of particular goods or activities, such as gasoline, alcohol, or gambling.
• Customs duties are taxes imposed on specific imported goods.
• Other sources include estate and gift taxes and payments to the Federal Reserve.

TWEET THIS

While nearly all Americans pay taxes, the composition of the type of taxes paid is very different for taxpayers at various points in the income distribution. Affluent Americans pay a larger share of their income in individual income taxes, corporate taxes, and estate taxes than do lower-income groups.1 By contrast, lower-income groups owe a greater portion of their earnings for payroll and excise taxes than those who are better off. In fact, taxpayers whose incomes are in the bottom 80 percent of all incomes pay, on average, more in payroll taxes than in income taxes.



TWEET THIS

THE U.S. TAX SYSTEM IS PROGRESSIVE
As a whole, the U.S. tax code remains progressive — with higher-income taxpayers paying a greater share of their income in taxes. That is true despite the fact that high-income Americans benefit disproportionately from tax breaks, otherwise known as tax expenditures.

Major tax expenditures — such as lower rates on capital gains and dividends, deductions for charitable contributions, and deductions for state and local taxes — tend to benefit higher-income taxpayers more than lower-income groups. CBO estimates that the top quintile of taxpayers receive 44 percent of the value of major tax expenditures, while only 11 percent goes to the bottom two quintiles. However, even with substantial tax expenditures, the top one percent of American taxpayers still pay an effective tax rate of 31 percent, on average, while the bottom 20 percent of the population pay an average of 4 percent.

TPC estimates that 67 percent of taxes collected for 2022 came from those in the top quintile, or those earning an income above $189,200 annually. Within this group, the top one percent of income earners — those earning more than $982,600 per year — will contribute 26 percent of all federal revenues collected.



TWEET THIS

While the fairness of the tax system is much debated, many economists agree that simplifying the tax code would help the economy. Further tax reform could promote economic growth while also making the code more simple, transparent, and fair.

 

not there

 

update:

When I posted this, earlier in the month, the debt was at $33.51 trillion.
Now, as of October 23, the debt has already risen to $33.66 trillion. That's a 0.447% increase in just about 19 days. That rate is equivalent to 8.587% for a year!
Just to state the obvious for any who may not realize it, that rate is not sustainable.

 

I even bolded the relevant passages for you. Any further denials will be ignored.

 

LOL. Who told you that? Bush inherited a surplus and when he left the office he has doubled the debt, and driven the economy to the ground.

 

nope, you compared the top to the bottom, were talking middle class vs the top

 

Yeah, that’s right. Bush was a RINO too.

I didn’t say you should. I said our tax burden is low by any standard.

And the top 1% have 42% of all wealth, and the bottom HALF has about 3.4%.

Top tax brackets should be added with the top one at about 75%. It would solve a number of problems. But we have a capitalist government.

 

Taxing "wealth" is a very different thing from taxing income.

I don't think you can tax "wealth" just because some have chosen or been able to save more of it. That would end up creating some misincentives.
All that "wealth" isn't just available for your taking. If you tried to seize half of it all, it would shut down the economy.

If 50% isn't enough, what makes you think 75% would be enough?
This is still closely within the same order of magnitude.
I think it's extremely probable if the government can't survive on one, they couldn't survive on the other either.

I also think it's kind of dangerous and irresponsible to say we shouldn't worry about something or change an issue with our current policies because we can always just enact another policy in the future to solve it. Pass that policy now, don't rely on something that hasn't even been implemented yet.
If the government was already taking in a revenue amount to be able to easily sustain this level of debt and spending, that would be one thing. But they are not.
There might be some issues with trying to increase those taxes that you are not foreseeing. It needs to be done before you take it into account in your planning.

 

It would be like setting off on a journey through a long stretch of wasteland in a car with an empty fuel tank. Expecting that you'll probably be able to find a fuel station along the way, but not being able to be entirely sure.
Or going on a long 2-day hike in the desert without bringing water, because you read a weather forecast that it will probably rain a little bit and you're expecting to be able to collect water from puddles.

But that's what the Left seems to be doing. "Don't worry, we'll be able to raise taxes on the rich, later. Even though we're not doing it right now."

 

non sequitur.

so what?

Not talking about wealth, we're talking about taxes.

Envy and jealousy are not good reasons for taxation.

 

Bush hasn't;t been President for 15 years. Clinton's "surplus" were mostly due to having A Democratic congress and surplus FICA. Unfortunately when the Dem took control under Bush they destroyed the lowering deficits Bush was creating.

 

Where do you get the idea he lowered deficits? He doubled the debt while he was in office, and GOP was in control of the purse 80% of the time.

 

You’re moving the goalposts. You originally said "after Bush's cuts he scored the LOWEST deficit since WW II. Of course at that point he had a GOP controlled Congress.” But When your BS is revealed you’re quick to spin a new story to save your ass.

I could say the same.

Where does wealth come from in these cases? But no matter, the same can be said for their income.

Funny how the right ALWAYS has to make the messenger the subject of the debate and insult and demean them when no other real answer is available. But it just shows you lack any grasp of the damage wealth does to a nation when the wealth is enough to buy favorable policy.

 

Then why did the right constantly, incessantly complain that SS and Medicare were on the ropes and destined for bankruptcy? LOL!!!!

The right is good at arguing and making up arguments but is terrible with facts.

 

No, I did not. Note the five quintiles.

 

we're talking the top 10% vs the middle class, it does not show that