In recent discussion, the assertion was made that ... http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/news/us-hate-groups-top-1000#.UatB10D2ZMs In order not to derail the discussion further, I have decided to start this thread. What I am most curious about is criteria to earn the title of 'hate group'. Who decides and how? Also, let us not just focus on the above mentioned splc, and have a general discussion. How do we, you and I, arrive at our opinion that another person or group is racist, hateful, bigoted..............? May I suggest that we offer our opinions in a respectful manner, no matter how unorthodox and controversial? So no trolling one liners, please.
Some of the more prominent hate-groups in America are: 1. The United States Democratic Party (hates conservatives). 2. The ACLU (hates conservatives) 3. NAACP (hates white people) 4. The Sierra Club (hates conservatives) 5. La Raza (hates bolillos) 6. The mainstream news media (hates Republicans) 7. All Jewish organizations (hates Christians) 8. All Muslim organizations (hates Jews and Christians) That's all that I can think of right now. Would someone please add to the list?
Wikipedia provides a pretty inclusive definition of "Hate Groups" and the qualifications for identifying a hate group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_group What is of interest to me is that the quotation from the SPLC isn't about "hate groups" at all. Why was this quotation cited when it has nothing to do with hate groups. It quotation refers to the so-called "Patriots" that are opposed to the Constitutional authority of the government of the United States. They are typically subversive anti-establishment right-wing political organizations. Typically these anti-goverment organizations are involved in promoting conspiracy theories such as "Obama is going to take our guns" or that the "Obama adminstration is promoting Sharia law" in the United States. For example: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/08/03/Obama-administration-paves-the-way-for-sharia-law http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/beck-and-nras-lapierre-warn-insidiou Perhaps the quotation from the SPLC was used because these so-called "Patriot" groups (that are really "anti-Constitutional government" groups) are often comprised of white racists, anti-Semites, and/or members with other invidious prejudices against groups of people as well but unless the group specifically promotes hatred against groups they don't fall into the category of "hate groups" under the definition of hate groups. We do know that many of the members of these "anti-Constitutional government" groups are also aligned with hate groups as well. Many are "White Nationalists" for example. So I'm left wondering why the "anti-Constitutional government" groups that are self-proclaiming to the "patriot" groups (when they're clearly not) are being referenced unless the OP acknowledges that predominately these groups are founded upon hatred as there is a lot of evidence to support that even if the group doesn't openly express that hatred.
It seems rather clear to me that a hate group is one that bases it's position on bigotry towards race, heritage, religion. I would tend to think that whilst I am sure there are harmless little militias running around, a percentage of them are more along the lines of white supremacists calling themselves militias. I don't think the intent of these groups is nearly as altruistic as they would like to portray themselves.
I tried to quote your post before you edited. I think you should have left what you first wrote, because everything you said was dead on. The SPLC is a group of leftist pimps, led by Jewish interests who want to diminish White European Culture. That is simply a fact, and anyone using their "expert" proclamations is only spreading lies. Let's recall, it was the SPLC that targeted the Family Research Council, prior to the lone gunman who attacked the FRC office.
It's always interesting to see a "right-wing" take on a subject such as this one. The sole purpose of the ACLU is to defend the Constitutionally protected Rights of the American People. In doing this the ACLU has more than once defended the Constitutional Rights of "right-wing" racist hate groups in court. It has even come to the defense of "right-wing" gun owners where guns were wrongfully confiscated by the police. The only way any person can oppose the efforts of the ACLU is if they don't believe in our Constitutionally protected Rights as a Person because protecting our Rights as a Person is exclusively what the ACLU is all about.
Frankly, we don't give a fiddler's (*)(*)(*)(*) what SPLC says or defines. Take your Racist, White Christian Hating pals to Zion.
Actually I was glad the post was edited. The poster is a much better person that the post suggested. For me my opinion is based the treatment and discussion of others, based on my belief that all men/women are created equal. Race, religion, gender or sexual identity have nothing to do with the quality of the person.
I would actually add ideology to that list as well. Sure religion covers a part of that but not all of it. Some people will target other simply for not believing or thinking the same as them.
The FBI also identifies hate groups but typically only based upon criminal acts by the members of the group. The KKK was idenified as a hate group as early as WW I for example. The problem is that not all hate groups engage in criminal acts. Many, such as Stormfront, are very careful to not specifically advocate criminal acts but are unrelenting in promoting hatred against minorities. The SPLC actively addresses where a group is promoting a message of hatred which goes beyond simply investigating criminal acts so it's list of "hate groups" is more extensive than the FBI's. The problem for conservatives, and the reason they dispute the SPLC's listing of hate groups, is that most hate groups are comprised of radical conservatives. Conservatives typically live in denial of the fact that most racists are conservatives for example. We can even post undisputed scientific studies that establish the extensive anti-black racial perjudice (78% of Republicans expressed explicit anti-black racial prejudice according to a 2012 study) and they simply deny it exists. They can't provide a percentage of "Republicans" with explicit racial prejudice so they simply deny that a valid study that established that percentage. If the percentage isn't 78% then what is it? Republicans refuse to answer that question. They just deny the study but can't provide any fundation for their denial. Basically we can't expect a serious answer from Conservatives because the live in denial of the fact that most "hate groups" are extemist right-wing white conservative groups. They live in denial of the "patriot" groups are anti-American spreading conspiracy theories because they believe the conspiracy theories. We saw this with the "birthers" that were clearly racist conspiracy theorists but "conservatives" consistanly denied this. There was never any question that Obama was a natural born US citizen but the "birthers" hated him because he was a "black liberal" so they invented conspiracy theories. We have "conservatives" today still defending Sheriff Joe Arpaio when everyone except "conservatives" has long known him to be a right-wing racist. They even deny it after a federal court found his whole department to be racially prejudiced. If we want to discuss "hate groups" then it isn't logical to do it with those that live in denial of "hate groups" because it might be self-indictment of their political ideology. Above we have denial of the findings by the SPLC because it is believed to be "liberal" (i.e. it believes in the Rights and Equality of All People and not just white Americans) while there isn't a creditable "conservative" organization anywhere identifying hate groups. So here are a simple questions for conservatives: Why isn't there a "conservative" organization trying to identify hate groups? If 78% of Republicans are not racially prejudiced then, based upon a creditable source what percentage is? The fact is that "conservatives" don't want to address the problem because it is self-incriminating if they do. Instead they merely condemn those that are willing to address the problem of prejudice, discrimination, and hatred in America.
And this is the only private non-partisan organization doing this extensive research. While often called a "liberal" organization because it opposes discrimination and hatred we can note that there are no "conservative" organizations involved in doing this extensive research.
That the "Obama administration is promoting Sharia law" in the United States, is not a conspiracy theory, it is a fact, supported by entire books, containing thousands of source references. 1. They Must Be Stopped by Brigitte Gabriel 2. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) by Robert Spencer 3. Stealth Jihad by Robert Spencer 4. Infiltration by Paul Sperry 5. The Day of Islam by Dr. Paul Williams 6. Sharia: the Threat to America by the Center for Security Policy 7. The Third Jihad (DVD) by Dr. Zuddhi Jasser 8. Muslim Mafia by P.David Gaubatz & Paul Sperry Here are dozens of hate (and sedition) groups (all Muslim Brotherhood front groups as designated by the US Justice Dept of George Bush) >> CAIR, ISNA, MAS, MSA, ICNA, FCNA, MAYA, AEF, UASR, IAP, BMI, IIIT, IMANA, AMSE, ICNA, Islamic Institute, AMC, AMF, Success Foundation, GSISS AKA Cordoba University, NAIF, IIFTIKHAR, AMSS, TIAA, IRO, African Muslim Agency, Safa Trust, SAAR Foundation, MMCT, Dar El-Eiman USA, ADAMS, IANA, GRF, MWL, MYNA, HHT, Islamic Academy of Florida, Fairfax Institute, AMT, IIFSO, AMCE, AMAFVAC, CISNA, Isalmic Media Foundation, et al
And the SPLC does look at liberal terror groups http://www.splcenter.org/get-inform...sh-to-shove/eco-violence-the-rec#.UatdftLVCSo sooooooo.....
Because there are books on a subject does not mean he subject is real/true Where's the Birth Certificate?: The Case that Barack Obama is not Eligible to be President by Jerome, Corsi A Question of Eligibility: A Law Enforcement Investigation into Barack Obama's Birth Certificate and His Eligibility... by Jerome R. Corsi and Michael Zullo (Feb 29, 2012) The Obama Birth Certificate Question by A. Citizen and A. Evitan (Apr 18, 2011) The Obama Birth Certificate Conspiracy: Here is the proof Barack Obama is lying about being born in the United... by The Underground News Network (Mar 17, 2010) Product Details Born to Lie: From the Birth Certificate to Health Care by Jones, Archie P. and Goetsch, David L. (Apr 25, 2012) Sharia law is not being promoted by DC. Stating so is a conspiracy theory
Since this seems to have turned into a discussion about the SPLC, let me just say that the Southern Poverty Laughingtock Center has little or nothing to do with either poverty or law. They are primarily a bunch of money grabbers who go around stuffing their pockets, by scaring the wits out of paranoid liberals, by feeding them scare talk about mostly impotent right-wing groups like the KKK and American Nazi Party. The best write-up on them I've seen was done by FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform) which includes severe criticism of them by liberal journals such as the Nation, Harpers, and the Montgomery Advertiser (SPLC's next door neighbor) As for the ACLU, they pretty much did themselves in when the issued a GAG ORDER against their own members, forbidding them from criticizing their American Civil Laughingstock Union leadership.
It's a conspiracy theory that right-wing extremists believe and that right-wing conservatives defend and nothing more. The Obama adminstration has not proposed or introduced one piece of legislation based upon Sharia Law. If anything we have a serious problem with right-wing evangelical Christians that have based legislation based upon Christian theological beliefs in the United States. Evangelical Christians advocate a Christian Theocracy in the United States as they believe the Bible, not the US Constitution, is the Supreme Law of the Land. This can be documented based upon the change in the Pledge of Alliegence in 1954 (under the flag code) to include the words "under God" when, in fact, we are one nation under the US Constitution and are not a nation "under God" by any definition. What "Christian conservatives" refuse to admit is that the religion of Islam is not a threat to the United States but the Chistian religion is. We haven't had any laws passed based upon Islamic religious beliefs but we've had hundreds of laws passed based upon Christian religious beliefs. All laws based upon religious beliefs violate the Inalienable Rights of the Person and, in fact, the US Supreme Court in the 1879 decision of Reynolds v United States expressly prohibited laws based upon religious opinion and established the doctrine under the First Amendment of the Separation of Church and State.
Probably true because "conservatives" can't provide any conflicting evidence to dispute te SPLC's list of hate groups and anti-government so-called "patriot" groups. Because they can't dispute the SPLC's lists they resort to condemning the organization itself. This is a common practice by the "right" where when they can't dispute the facts they condemn whoever presented the facts. Conservatives ignore the message (the facts) and shoot the messenger (the SPLC).
Nice thread. The problem with defining hate groups is that it always ends up being no more than an ad hominem attack often based solely on the person's opinion on a specific issue. The SPLC and others define hate by a specific belief and turn it into a charge of racism or homophobia etc. For instance, being against gay marriage automatically means you hate gays. Many people stretch it further so that hating the democrat party for political reasons now means you hate blacks. Not wanting to raise taxes on the "wealthy" now means you hate blacks. How terrible this is for society and the country. It's not just that it stifles free discussion of perfectly valid political opinions. It dilutes real hate. When a Christian group is labeled a hate group because their religion defines marriage in the traditional way, they are lumped in with true hate groups like the westboro baptist church, a group that is consistently denounced by everyone right or left. A good church can yell their separation from westboro, yet the people who label continue to give westboro some legitimacy by lumping them together. Westboro is a true hate group. Skinheads and the Black Panthers also. They make no bones about it. It's tempting to call the NAACP a hate group as well. But that would be exactly like what so many on the left do when they point their accusing fingers at right-wing orgs. Best to try to keep out of the gutter.
1. So says the person who has NOT READ the books. Read Baby, Read. THEN ye shall know the truth. 2. Why do you quote my post, and then fill your post with a subject (Obama's birth certificate) that has nothing to do with what I said ??????? 3. Of course Sharia law is promoted by DC, and there thousands of examples (many of them listed in the books I listed). I gave sources to back up what I said. I see no evidence for your claim. Here's some more evidence, and plenty of it >> http://www.politicalforum.com/elect...omney-needs-mention-these-things-tonight.html Here's even more, and more, and more. 1. http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-obama-administration-muslim-brotherhood.html 2. http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/271356-muslim-influence-pentagon-prevails.html 3. http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...ech-upholds-sharia-expense-1st-amendment.html 4. http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...explain-why-fbi-mishandled-tsarnaev-case.html 5. http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...ds-school-again-cscope-33.html#post1062697398 6. http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...ual-forbids-criticism-taliban-pedophilia.html 7. http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...tories-than-patreus-bur-no-press-why-not.html 8. http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/...Muslim-Brotherhood-Leader-and-Hamas-Supporter 9. http://www.politicalforum.com/current-events/270754-obama-campaign-holds-muslim-outreach-event.html 10. http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-law-america-europe-what-west-needs-know.html I'm not ignoring the message. I'm looking for it. Does the SPLC list the NAACP as a hate group ? No ? Why Not ???? Do they list the dozens of Muslim Brotherhood front groups I posted in Post # 16 ? ?????? And how about these racist, hate groups >> La Raza, LULAC, MALDEF, MECHA ???
This is blatantly false. Why do people make up crap like this. Being opposed to same-gender marriage has nothing specifically to do with being a hate group even if it's based upon a hatred of gays although it can be. Opposition to same-gender marriage (based upon religious beliefs which is generally the case) is generally reflective of opposition to the First Amendment (separation of Church and State), Tenth Amendment (State Rights), the Fourteenth Amendment (equal protection under the law), and Article IV (Full Faith and Credit clause) of the US Constitution. So there can be some groups that are opposed to same-gender marriage that are "hate groups" but there are also many others that are merey anti-Constitutional groups predominately based upon their belief that the Bible, not the US Constitution, is the Supeme Law of the Land in the United States. The National Organization for Marriage, for example, is not identified as a "hate group" but it is unquestionably a Religious PAC opposed to the US Constitution.
My point was and is that because multiple conspiracy theorists write about something does not make it true. Going forward I will try harder to stay on topic.
