UFOs are far more likely terrestrial in origin.

What does THAT mean?

I still want to know how YOU believe humans acquired the characteristis that I mentioned.

Do you believe god came back and tweaked the human genome?

 

Only terrestrial objects fly because of our atmosphere. Beyond our atmosphere traveling through space does not require any "flying". Therefore UFO only applies to terrestrial objects. We need another name for Unknown Space Objects which would be USO.

As to whether or not there are any aliens involved as far as UFO's and USO's go that is still TBD.

 

Acronyms 'R Us.

 

That does not negate the point that I made.

Most scientists that I listen to do not display your implicit certainty about the nature of reality outside of activists like Dawkins.

I bet donald hoffman really causes you some problems ? Magical fairies

Yet he is conducting science.

Funny thing is, if consciousness is funfamental your beliefs about the nature of reality are wrong and false. Can you handle that? I could given my mind is not closed.

 

of course it does. Believing in abject nonsense like unicorns, dragons or magical sky fairies does not benefit humanity in any way. Reality has nothing to do with consciousness. The universe has existed for billions of years prior to the first life form becoming conscious.

 

Seems to me that if the powers to be cannot find consensus that an unidentified aerial object arrived from outside our atmosphere, then the UFO or USO must be terrestrial. I'm assuming the collective nations on Earth have the technology to identify an object arriving from space??

 

You have no way of knowing if consciousness is not fundamental. .If you csnnot grasp that basic fact we csnnot discuss much.

You are writing checks your arse cannot cash.

 

You have no way of knowing if consciousness is not fundamental. .If you csnnot grasp that basic fact we csnnot discuss much.

You are writing checks your arse cannot cash. Apparently you know nothing of the consciousness argument carried on by minds beyond your paygrade as well as my own. But at least I am aware of them. Your dissection shows you have not really been exposed to the various legit arguments .

 

While there a great deal of interest in looking out into space it is so infinitely immense that actually detecting an alien space craft is next to impossible without having some idea of where to look. It would have arrived on our doorstep before anyone was aware that it was approaching in all likelihood.

 

I just showed you.

Lol, is that a threat?

 

I guess we're screwed detecting meteorites, etc.? And what about detecting inbound missiles? Seems to me if someone is looking for meteorites, etc., and someone is looking for foreign missiles, and someone is constantly spying on others, and others are constantly searching the skies for research, etc., that if an actual UFO tried to enter our atmosphere, it would not go undetected. But I understand the vastness of our atmosphere and beyond...and agree with your comments...

 

It would be relatively easy for an alien UFO to approach earth undetected given that there are more than enough large objects to hide behind. They could be camped out on the far side of the moon and we wouldn't see them. They could disguise a spy satellite to look like space junk and we wouldn't be any the wiser.

Doesn't mean that there are aliens spying on us but it does mean that it isn't exactly a challenge for any species capable of interstellar travel.

 

Virtually all extraterrestrial theories must incorporate some form of travel faster than light. The distances and universal speed limit are far closer to insurmountable than any complication that could be involved with keeping such a terrestrial secret.

 

According to Quantum Theory there are between 10 and 11 dimensions. What is light years away in 4 dimensional space might be a nanosecond away in some of those other dimensions.

While we might not be able to experience what exists in those dimensions if we can pass through them as a "shortcut" to some other part of out 4 dimensional universe that could be a way to surmount what seems insurmountable at present.

 

I wonder if humans or aliens are capable of interstellar travel, and they set out on long voyages, if the spaceship would be 'huge' or 'small'? I'm thinking 'large' is the answer, and if so, should be detectible with our technologies. Science fiction has conditioned us to assume SOL travel and cloaking, etc. including worm holes and other yet to be known physics, and any species who would possess such knowledge and technology can probably come and go without our detection...

 

That goes to show that there's a theory for everything and counter theories to those.

 

Yet unknown physics? It is called Stealth technology and we've had it to one degree or another for about 50 years. We are probably doing optical invisibility as well; not true invisibility but making things very hard to see.

 

No, it really doesn't. But there are a number of competing and or complementary theories of everything or components thereof, some of which are really still hypotheses.

 

That comes from String [now M-] Theory.

 

We don't know that. It might be easy once you figure it out. It might be inevitable that most any advanced civilization will figure FTL travel and we live in the middle of an intergalactic highway. It might be a near certainly that we will be visited many times by many different species of aliens. Then again, it might be impossible. Or, it might be possible but impractical. We can only say that based on the physics we know, it doesn't seem likely. But physics is incomplete and the attempts to complete physics result in notions of wormholes, closed timelike curves, and alternative dimensions.

The simpler explanation is that we are seeing time travelers. That is a simpler explanation than ETs and the physics is no worse. In fact it eliminates a lot of problems.

We actually know how to make a time machine - just circumnavigate a black hole at the proper velocity and distance from the event horizon. In the extreme one can see them self entering the orbit as they exit it.

 

All that might have been true early last century but human remote sensing technology and space science has progressed so rapidly that it would be difficult if not impossible for an artificial object of enter the inner solar system, let alone Earths orbit with out being detected.

We 'miss' small meteors etc primarily because they are; (A) small and (b) cold - that is their surface temperatures match that of the solar environment they are traveling through. Unless they are functionally dead/abandoned artificial objects require power sources and radiate heat (way more than the local back ground level). So they would stand out on space based detection systems. Also depending on what they are made of their albedo is different to natural objects as is the signal they send to spectrometers (ie. they are 'shiny' and metallic). Note; painting your ship black doesn't help- whatever energy you absorb as light has to go somewhere else as heat.

Finally natural objects don't and cant alter course or speed sans an external influence like gravity. So if astronomers are watching an inbound object and it suddenly engages in a random course correction? well it has some explaining to do.

So if 'aliens' are watching us they are doing it from a loooooong way out on the edge of the solar system and/or using devices carefully hidden at least decades ago in objects like asteroids big enough to mask the heat signature of the device being used. Alternately they could just send a probe into local space (think within a few light years) and just sit back at watch TV. Two or three hours of American day time television should be enough to convince anyone that Earth is not worth visiting.

 

You seem to think you know a lot about unknowable technology and capabilities in these unknown and unknowable aliens. For all we know they are tiny or invisible to us.

 

Since the only metrics we have for such discussions is what we know about biological life and technology as it exists on Earth we have to use those to set boundaries around the debate. Positing 'tiny and invisible' aliens watching me from outer space is not different to suggest tiny and invisible pixies watching me from my backyard. If the observer is effectively non-detectable it becomes impossible to debate.

Aliens could (and probably would use nanotechnology) just as we are starting to. But again it has its limits, low (almost zero) power signature sure but its size limits what you can do with it outside of strictly controlled conditions - think laboratories or factories. Seed the earths atmosphere or above with tons of different sensors and sure you could learn a lot for the brief time they can keep running. But then as they fail/fall they can be collected.

As far as we know invisibility only works on a given frequency or range of frequencies. You want to be invisible in the visible light range - no problem, go for it. That still leaves everything else from ULF radio waves through to gamma rays to deal with. And if you don't emit at any of those frequencies you are not 'invisible' you are a black hole.

Wormholes? again in theory possible but physicists 'think' they know what the signature of a wormhole would look like and we have the technology to detect it depending on the size and distance from Earth. Other speculated forms of FTL travel would get to to the solar system but wouldn't let you stay in orbit to observe it.

Its only when you get to the idea of god like, transcendent aliens who have evolved their technology to the point where they have learnt to manipulate the physical laws of the Universe that we get to a civilization that could hide widespread observation of the Earth, be it on it or near it. And then we are back in pixie land again - how can we know?

Short of that any kind of technological observation of the Earth would leave traces that could be detected. And to date none has been found. Which BTW doesn't rule it out entirely, it just makes it extremely (emphasis on extremely) unlikely.

 

I agree/agreed, albeit in different words. There's a theory for everything and counter theories to those, some more, some less, valid than others.

 

yeah, it might be that