Ukraine, Russia and Nazis.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by zalekbloom, Nov 26, 2022.

  1. zalekbloom

    zalekbloom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    After Russia invaded Ukraine we hear a lot about Ukrainians ‘Nazis’, so I will try to make few things straight.
    Because the same people who run Soviet Union today are ruling Russia (Putin is KGB officer for whom collapse of the Soviet Union was the biggest disaster of the 20ties century), I will use the name Russia instead of Soviet Union.

    Before the start WWII Russia and Nazi Germany was very close friends. Both country sign agreement to invade Poland and divide it between them – Germany attacked Poland from the west on Sept 1, 1939 and Russia attacked Poland from the east on Sept 17, 1939.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact

    On Sept 22, 1939 Russia and Nazi Germany together celebrated victory over Poland on military parade in Brest-Litovsk:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_military_parade_in_Brest-Litovsk

    Russia helped Nazi Germany to fight the West by sending to Germany strategic materials:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Soviet_Commercial_Agreement_(1940)

    https://news.nd.edu/news/historian-...oviet-alliance-that-laid-groundwork-for-wwii/

    Before Germany attacked Russia, Stalin and Hitler were friends:
    https://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/05/12/Hitler-and-Stalin-had-praise-for-one-another/5978610948800/

    So why suddenly Russia became so fanatically anti-Nazi? Because Nazi Germany betrayed their dear friend Russia – attacking Russia in 1941.

    Russia didn’t give a damn for German murdering civilian population, as matter of fact until the start of WWII Russia murdered much more innocent civilians than Germany:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Soviet_Union

    For Russians the killing innocent people was a crime only when the perpetrators were Germans, but it was perfectly fine when murders were Russians:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre#Post-war_trials

    Did Ukrainians fought together with Nazi Germany? Yes, in German army there were Ukrainian divisions which supported Nazi Germany:

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/266245...nd 250,000,a combination of different factors.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany

    Did Russians fought together with Nazi Germany? Yes:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Liberation_Army

    Russia is accusing the US who protecting Nazi scientists, but Russia did exactly the same thing:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Osoaviakhim

    Is there today any influence of on Ukraine Nazis on Ukraine? Yes, Ukraine is a democratic country and Ukraine neo-Nazi had some influence in the Ukrainian politics, but the influence was miniature, the best proof is that Ukrainians elected a Jewish president.

    Are there in Russia any neo-Nazi/fascist organizations? Yes:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fascist_parties_in_Russia

    Is there today any influence of fascists organizations on Russian politics? No, Russia is autocratic regime and all parties/organizations who oppose Putin are persecuted.

    So why Russia is talking so much about Ukrainians Nazis?

    Because Russia wants to convince it’s own population that Russia always were against Nazism. This is the purpose of May Victory Parade, Russia don’t want remember that the similar parade they did in 1939 together with Nazi Germany.
     
    Rampart likes this.
  2. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Well, there also is a problem with Nazi's in Ukraine.

    https://donsurber.substack.com/p/sp...id=126430712&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email

    [​IMG]

    Springtime for Hitler and Ukraine

    'The New York Times is worried about Ukraine soldiers.' It doesn't bother the NYT's 'that they are Nazis. No, what bothers NYT is that the soldiers wear Nazi garb, which reveals their Nazism.'

    'NYT is trying to hide the fact that Ukrainians were part of a slaughter of unarmed Jews by Nazi allies during World War II. Ukrainian soldiers used their bullets on Jews, not just Russians, during Operation Barbarossa, the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union.'

    '“Operation Barbarossa, the German invasion of the Soviet Union, which began on June 22, 1941, brought a wave of destruction to 4 million Jews residing in the Soviet territories. Approximately, 1.5 million were able to evacuate or escape deeper into the Soviet Union, leaving around 2.5 million Jews under German-occupation. The Nazis and their collaborators murdered the majority of those left behind. Mobile killing units (Einsatzgruppen) followed the German Army, murdering Soviet civilians and Jews one bullet at a time. It is largely unknown that one out of three Jews killed in the Holocaust were murdered by bullets, not in gas chambers.”'

    '2.5 million. About one third of that total was in Ukraine.'

    'Ukraine soldiers killed 1,600 Jews in Piryatin, Ukraine, on the second day of Passover in 1942. That was just one example.'

    'The deaths were by firing squads and the bodies were dumped in ravines and other mass graves.'

    'NYT is in lockstep with Zelensky and his refusal to make peace with the Russians who invaded his nation. Although he is Jewish, he uses units with Nazi heritages to battle the Russians. They are proud of the evil from 80 years ago.'

    'Babi Yar, the execution of 33,771 Jews (the Nazis were meticulous in recording their atrocities) near Kyiv on September 29 and 30, 1941.'

    “Historically Ukraine has been one of the most anti-Semitic countries in the world. Even before the Nazi invasion, Ukrainian citizens conducted pogroms and mass killings of Jews. One of the worst offenders was Bohdan Khmelnytsky who several hundred years ago murdered tens of thousands of Jewish women, babies, and men, in a prelude to the Holocaust, and in the name of Ukrainian nationalism. That, too, was then, but now the statue of this anti-Semitic mass murderer stands proudly at the center of Kyiv and his picture adorns current Ukrainian currency.”'

    ' “The Times reports that even some Jewish organizations are prepared to give Ukraine a pass on its toleration of neo-Nazis, because they don't want to be perceived as supporting Russian President Vladimir Putin's narrative about Ukraine being a Nazi state. Ukraine is not a Nazi state; it is a state that elected a Jew as president, while tolerating Nazism in its military. Those who refuse to condemn such intolerable toleration only encourage it by their mistaken silence.'
     
    Wild Bill Kelsoe likes this.

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