Uvalde police were cowards. Now they blame the gun

As I understand it, it was more of a failure of leadership and awareness of what was going on in the classroom. They were focused on the barricaded subject aspect of it, and failed to sufficiently account for savable injured victims. When your boss tells you to stand down, it's going to raise the threshold for going in. Now sure, somebody could have defied orders and gone in guns blazing, but that would take an actual hero and it only seems like the best course of action in retrospect. So I wouldn't say they were "cowards," so much as regular people whose leader failed them and it's unfortunate there was not a single hero among them. Of course a hero who makes the wrong decision is remembered as a dead idiot who didn't follow orders and got more people, including him or herself, killed.

 

Are you really trying to asset that someone doesn’t get to have an opinion on weapons unless they have been shot at by one?

How laughable

Currently that is the case. Polling, especially by the youth, show that is extremely unpopular.

Let’s hope future generations can correct that error

 

I am not so sure that the above 75% never shoot at the enemy in combat is relative to them being cowards. Rather I would assume that refers to most people in war zones are not in direct combat or in a combat frontal position. There are an awful lot of support personnel. In modern warfare, I can completely understand that most people in Iraq or Afghanistan did not actually face people in gun-to-gun combat. It seems to me that those conflicts were a lot of existing and trying not to be exploded by a roadside bomb as opposed to face to face combat. The reason for this is our clear weapons superiority and that guerilla warfare is the only option for the enemy.

If you are saying that you think that means only 20% are not cowards, I disagree with your assessment. I do not believe that is what your data reveals.

 

"I was just following orders" isn't a defense.

 

Not a defense against committing criminal atrocities. But when talking about assaulting a classroom full of children and an armed subject, one might want to think before acting. On the one hand, getting to injured kids faster could save them. On the other hand, the subject has already had the opportunity to shoot who he wants to shoot and may try to use hostages as shields or bystanders could be killed in a disorganized assault.

 

IOW, we should disarm the police and arm our women to keep the peace. That would represent real progress.

“Gomez said as soon as she parked near the school she was approached by U.S. Marshals who told her she wasn't allowed to park there. Gomez refused to leave, as she was more concerned about getting inside the building and saving her sons.
"And he said, well, we're going to have to arrest you because you're being very uncooperative," Gomez told CBS News. "I said, 'Well, you're going to have to arrest me because I'm going in there. And I'm telling you right now, I don't see none of y'all in there. Y'all are standing with snipers and y'all are far away.'"
KHUO, UVALDE SCHOOL SHOOTING,’ Nothing was being done' | Mother describes running inside Robb Elementary during mass shooting to save her sons, Angeli Gomez said she was handcuffed when she parked at Robb Elementary after learning about the shooting, but once she was uncuffed she ran inside to save her sons., Author: CBS News, KHOU 11 Staff, Published: 6:33 PM CDT June 2, 2022
Updated: 6:53 PM CDT June 2, 2022.
https://www.khou.com/article/news/s...nman/285-f5dc5552-f995-45ca-81b6-06ce0d623aa0

 

It isn't a defense for cowardice, either.

 

When the public relies on armed police to keep the peace there will be no peace.

“Gómez alleged that the US marshals handcuffed her to stop her from rushing toward the school.
"I told one of the officers, 'I don't need you to protect me. Get away from me. I don't need your protection. If anything, I need you to go in with me to go protect my kids,'" she told CBS News.
The US Marshals agency has previously denied handcuffing parents, telling WSJ that its deputy marshals “maintained order and peace in the midst of the grief-stricken community that was gathering around the school.”
CBS News also reported that Gómez, who is reportedly on probation for previous charges against her, claimed that she had received a call from “someone in law enforcement” telling her that if she kept talking to the media and sharing her story, she might face some kind of violation for obstruction of justice.”
YAHOO NEWS, , The Uvalde Mom Who Ran Into The School To Save Her Sons From The Shooting Spoke Out About How Police Tried To Stop Her, By Steffi Cao, June 4, 2022.
https://news.yahoo.com/uvalde-mom-ran-school-save-175901054.html

 

I think the biggest person at fault was the former Uvalde School District Police Chief who pretty much gave the order not to go in. Most followed orders, per their training. It was chaotic that day, and they should have gone in and not have another Columbine Incident on their hands. the other problem I have is my own state's DPS who are basically circumventing the release of all the police communications that day in an effort to delay or minimize any lawsuit by the parents whose child was killed or injured that day.

In total, there were 376 law enforcement officers with a lack of communication between the various local, state, and federal agencies. Not all were cowards, the CBP specialized unit that took out the shooter was simply at the right place in the right time. But overall, the systematic errors that did occur cannot be ignored and needs to be addressed. Part of it was with Gov. Abbott's directive, but it does not stop shootings on school campuses if it is outside the building though. And that needs to be addressed as well. We recently had an incident here in my area, Lamar High School in Arlington Texas where the shooter shot another kid and wounded one more student outside the building but was on school grounds.

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/17/law-enforcement-failure-uvalde-shooting-investigation/

From the link above, "The investigators said that in the absence of a strong incident commander, another officer could have — and should have — stepped up to the task.

“These local officials were not the only ones expected to supply the leadership needed during this tragedy,” the report said. “Hundreds of responders from numerous law enforcement agencies — many of whom were better trained and better equipped than the school district police — quickly arrived on the scene.”

Unfortunately, there was no strong incident commander. It is easy to play armchair quaterback as you are doing now. It is far different if you were placed in that situation with imperfect information on who it was, how many, etc. And I don't think you would have passed that test either.

 

You should have read the article, before posting irrelevant information and making a personal attack...

This is coming from rank and file cops who were on the scene.

They're admitting that they refused to take the initiative because they were scared. That's straight up cowardice.

 

Since you never been in law enforcement, aren't you personally attacking the men in blue by stating they were "cowards?" Second, I simply said that if the shoe was on your foot, aka you were the leader of the police, even you would have failed. That is not an attack. That is an affirmation that you would be placed in a situation in which you were not trained for. Finally, I did read the article. I think what they said was taken out of context by the writer of the article and you for attempting to make a political comment.

That is not exactly what they said. yes, they feared the rifle, or what they believe was the rifle because pistols don't do well against rifles. They were assessing the situation and knew they were outgunned. This is not some video game here or a police drama show. Police want to get back home to their families. That is something real to anyone who is facing death, even police officers.

I rather you read the actual report below in the link of the whole incident instead of trying to make this political based on the lack of experience you have.

https://house.texas.gov/_media/pdf/...Elementary-Investigative-Committee-Report.pdf

 

It doesn't prove that. Their assessment was they were outgunned, at least for the context of assaulting a barricaded classroom. Initiating a failed assault leads to more lives lost, not less - cops and victims alike. It was probably the wrong call, but not based upon cowardice.

 

yup.

if you think you can assert that cops are more afraid of an ar shooting at them you’d better know why.

but you don’t know.

 

Yes. Damn right. They earned it.

They weren't outgunned. They not only cowards, but lying cowards by saying that. For two reasons: at 20 feet, a pistol will match the firepower of a semi-automatic rifle. There were cops on scene who were armed with semi-automatic rifles.

 

Their assessment is bullshit. Using that bullshit excuse is an attempt to cover up their cowardice.

 

Well, I understand the suspicion, but it's not the only possible explanation for a failure to act in this case.

 

not ones who are properly educated.

 

So, you are becoming ANTIFA/BLM now because you hate police officers?

It is not the number of guns that makes a person outgunned, it is the type and calibre. If they believed he had an AR15 with bullets that can go through the breastplate body protection armor of a police officer, then yes, they are outgunned, at least initially. Rifles have a longer, more effective range than a pistol. It is not the velocity that is the issue here, it is a lot of other factors and the type of ammunition used. The semiautomatic rifles are in the trunk of their cruisers. And not all police officers have them, depending on the department. Deparmental policy is that specialized officers, SWAT to be more precise, are to enter the building. They should have secured most of the building in areas where they knew he wasn't. But they were given the order not to go in by Arrowdondo, the former chief of the Ulvalde School District. Some of the local officers even knew who they thought who the shooter was, and thus, believed he was having a "mental breakdown" of some sort.

This is not the movie A Fistful of Dollars. that is make-believe. In the real world, a police officer with a 9mm pistol is outgunned by a person who has an AR15, and if they don't know precisely where he is. At the same time, you had a lack of leadership at the top which heavily contributed to the problem. I blame the leadership more than I blame the 376 officers that were there including the 16 sheriff deputies and 19 Uvalde Police officers there initially.

 

difference between properly educated and real live fire exercises. Live fire exercises or real war situations make most people afraid, even combat soldiers. That is nature. Training can overcome that, but not anything esle.

 

oh there is legitimate fear and irrational fear. I was assuming that the comment about children involve irrational fear. Like people who run over harmless snakes they see on the road versus watching when you step over a log in rattlesnake country

 

I don't dispute any of your post but the highlighted bit is why I advocate AR style rifles for home defense and hit probability is the main reason

 

the Chopper, AK47, is probably better for home defense. Reason, it is a hell of a lot easier to clean and maintain that weapon than an AR15, in which you need to clean it every other time you fire the thing or at least once a week for good measure. But for home defense, the best weapon is your mind, not any firearm. And most robbers, are just as scared as you are. You just have to convince them of that before they step foot into your home and while on the property.

 

All fear is irrational, it is to to what degree is the irrationality.

 

well I dispute that but it comes down to definition. If I see tornado coming my way, fear will cause me to seek shelter. If I see a bunch of thugs headed my way, I will seek cover or leave the area. on the other hand, someone who wets themselves when a garter snake appears, that is irrational fear

 

I don't like the safety on most AK rifles. I think the AR 15 cleaning bit is a bit of a myth. especially ones in 9mm.