You don't see the problem with your reasoning? You're fine if the "credible evidence to convict" was simply so many other women accusing him? Or you're fine with someone who might have been falsely convicted of a worse crime because they probably did other bad things.
I believe that your opinion is evil and wrong. When it affects the fate of another man and is not based on careful logic. You're free to use whatever "gut feeling" you want, so long as your opinion only affects you. There's a saying, injustice happens when good people fail to act. (Weinstein definitely doesn't appear to have a been a "good person", but that doesn't mean we totally shouldn't care about what happens to him and be okay throwing him to the wolves, though many people seem to think it does)
Co Correct. I see no problem with my reasoning. If you or his defense have proof of all 87 of those women, simply accusing him, falsely, his lawyers and you should provide it. I am never fine with anyone falsely convicted. In most every case of false conviction it was due to some part of the prosecution lying or holding back evidence. So, present this false evidence. Opinion is not evidence.
I'm glad the wolves had a feast on ole Harvey. It's a shame Bill Cosby was able to taste freedom again in his life.
This is why need to immediately eliminate ability to recover money from lawsuits over sexual assault. And put in place a statute of limitations on sexual assault. (The state of New York where Weinstein was convicted recently removed their statute of limitations) How on earth can anyone trust that women are telling the truth when they stand to gain a huge amount of money? I mean when they are accusing a rich person of sexual assault, when we know it's very likely the woman is going to launch a separate lawsuit trying to get a huge chunk of money based on her allegations. (If she simply only tries to sue the man for money, the authorities are going to ask why didn't you report it to police to try to get criminal charges pressed? So the woman usually has to go ahead with cooperation with police and testimony in a criminal case if she also wants to have a lawsuit) In my opinion, women should not be able to sue a man for money for a sexual assault that allegedly happened years ago, because it's extremely unlikely a man being accused is going to be able to go back that far in time to find evidence that could be used to exonerate himself. The man will pretty much have no chance of being able to defend himself, if he is innocent. And then there is virtually zero chance to be able to catch a false accuser in her lie.
Our corrupt broken criminal justice system has to railroad the guilty to convict the guilty. That system also routinely railroads the innocent. Our corrupt bipartisan ruling political class has no interest in guaranteeing due process, fair trials or equal justice.
I've noticed that the strongest human emotion is apathy. "I don't care" And in no situation is that stronger than in this case. Everyone knows Weinstein was a slimy reprehensible human being. So no one cares about injustice that may have been done to him, or is willing to give him any benefit of the doubt, or entertain in their mind the possibility that dozens of women may be lying. Justice is supposed to be "be blind". But in this situation, that does not appear to be the case. Were each of Weinstein's accusers only considered one by one in isolation, and the rest of Weinstein's horrible past of sexual misconduct not considered, I think most likely he would not have been found guilty.
It's not apathy or emotion. It's based on facts given and the jury trial. You're attempting to use apathy to say 87 women lied and Harvey was railroaded. Without evidence, you've provided none.
The law is flawed. Most all of those women stood to gain large amounts of money by accusing him. The first two women who actually accused him of rape, I'm sure he did coerce into sex, and years later when they found out all the other women he had done that to, they wanted to get vengeance. Felt they had to lie to make sure Weinstein would get the punishment they believed he deserved. But after those few women, I think a lot of other women piled on, trying to get money, women who Weinstein never actually had sex with.
I suppose it is easy for voyeurs enjoying the spectacle of wolves tearing apart powerful prey like Weinstein or Cosby to identify with the wolves and believe they are part of the pack even though they don't have the teeth for that job.
It was a criminal case, but the two are intimately and inextricably tied together. There are strong reasons why women who plan to start a civil case go forward with a criminal case, or why women who have already filed a civil case go forward with a criminal case. It's kind of going to make it look like the woman is lying if she only goes forward with a civil case and refuses to file a police report or cooperate with authorities over the criminal case. There were two criminal cases, one in New York, which involved four women testifying, and one in California. But I strongly suspect that a part of the reason Weinstein may have been convicted (and why the prison sentence was so long) is that everyone knew there were other accusers who did not testify in court. For example, the conviction in California may have been influenced by the fact they knew Weinstein had already been convicted of a separate but very similar case in New York. It was a very high profile story in the media at that time.
What you are doing is your usual denigration of women. The following is not ‘gut instinct’. Let’s make this real. The man was a pig — sexually harassing and assaulting women is not okay and no excuses should be made. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Weinstein_sexual_abuse_cases Women who said they had been sexually harassed or assaulted by Weinstein include: Amber Anderson, actress[36] Lysette Anthony, actress[37] Asia Argento, actress and director[26] Rosanna Arquette, actress[26] Jessica Barth, actress[26] Kate Beckinsale, actress[38] Juls Bindi, massage therapist[39] Cate Blanchett, actress[40][note 1] Helena Bonham Carter, actress[41] Zoë Brock, model[42] Cynthia Burr, actress[43] Liza Campbell, writer and artist[44] Alexandra Canosa, producer[45][46] Rowena Chiu, Weinstein employee[47] Marisa Coughlan, actress and writer[48] Hope Exiner d'Amore, Weinstein employee[43] Florence Darel, actress[49] Wedil David, actress[50] Emma de Caunes, actress[26] Paz de la Huerta, actress[51] Juliana De Paula, model[52] Cara Delevingne, actress and model[53] Sophie Dix, actress[54] Jane Doe, model and aspiring actress[55] Lacey Dorn, actress and filmmaker[43] Kaitlin Doubleday, actress[56] Caitlin Dulany, actress[57] Dawn Dunning, actress[58] Lina Esco, actress and director[59] Alice Evans, actress[60] Lucia Evans, formerly Lucia Stoller, actress[26] Angie Everhart, model and actress[61] Claire Forlani, actress[62] Romola Garai, actress[63] Louisette Geiss, screenwriter and actress[44] Louise Godbold, nonprofit organization director[44] Judith Godrèche, actress[58] Trish Goff, former model, actress, and real estate broker[64] Larissa Gomes, actress[57] Heather Graham, actress[65] Eva Green, actress[66] Ambra Gutierrez, formerly Ambra Battilana, model[24] Mimi Haleyi, former production assistant[14][67] Daryl Hannah, actress[68] Salma Hayek, actress and producer[69] Lena Headey, actress[70] Anne Heche, actress[71] Lauren Holly, actress[72] Dominique Huett, actress[73] Jessica Hynes, actress, director and writer[74] Continue next post.
Amy Israel, Miramax executive[14] Angelina Jolie, actress and director[58] Ashley Judd, actress and political activist[14][24] Minka Kelly, actress[75] Katherine Kendall, actress[58] Heather Kerr, actress[76][77] Mia Kirshner, actress[14][78] Myleene Klass, singer and model[24] Nannette Klatt, actress[79] Liz Kouri, actress[79] Olga Kurylenko, model and actress[80] Jasmine Lobe, actress[79] Emma Loman (alias), German actress[81] Ivana Lowell, author and daughter of Lady Caroline Blackwood[79] Laura Madden, Weinstein employee[44] Madonna, singer-songwriter and actress[82] Natassia Malthe, actress[83] Jessica Mann, former[84] aspiring[85] actress[86][87][88] Julianna Margulies, actress[89] Brit Marling, actress[90][91] Sarah Ann Masse, actress, comedian, and writer[44] Ashley Matthau, actress[14][43] Rose McGowan, actress[14][24] Natalie Mendoza, actress[92] Sophie Morris, administrative assistant[93] Katya Mtsitouridze, TV hostess and head of Russian film body Roskino[94] Emily Nestor, Weinstein employee[44] Jennifer Siebel Newsom, documentary filmmaker and actress[14][95] Connie Nielsen, actress[96] Kadian Noble, actress[97] Lupita Nyong'o, actress[98] Lauren O'Connor, Weinstein employee[14][99] Gwyneth Paltrow, actress[14][58] Samantha Panagrosso, former model[100] Zelda Perkins, Weinstein employee[44] Vu Thu Phuong, actress and businesswoman[14][101] Sarah Polley, actress, writer, and director[102] Emanuela Postacchini, actress[103][104] Monica Potter, actress[105] Aishwarya Rai, actress[106] Tomi-Ann Roberts, professor of psychology and former aspiring actress[58] Lisa Rose, Miramax employee[107] Erika Rosenbaum, actress[108] Melissa Sagemiller, actress[109] Annabella Sciorra, actress[68] Léa Seydoux, actress[110] Lauren Sivan, journalist[111] Chelsea Skidmore, actress and comedian[59] Mira Sorvino, actress[26] Kaja Sokola, model[112] Tara Subkoff, actress[24] Melissa Thompson[57] Uma Thurman, actress[113] Paula Wachowiak, Weinstein employee[114] Wende Walsh, model and aspiring actress[79][115] Paula Williams, actress[116] Sean Young, actress[117]
Rape Women who have accused Weinstein of rape include: Lysette Anthony told British police in October 2017 that Weinstein raped her in the late 1980s at her home in London.[118] Asia Argento told The New Yorker that in 1997, Weinstein invited her into a hotel room, "pulled her skirt up, forced her legs apart, and performed oral sex on her as she repeatedly told him to stop".[26] Wedil David, an actress, said that in 2016, Harvey Weinstein raped her in a Beverly Hills hotel room.[50] Paz de la Huerta said Weinstein had raped her on two separate occasions in November and December 2010.[51] Lucia Evans said, after a business meeting in 2004, Weinstein forced her to perform oral sex on him.[26] Hope Exiner d'Amore, a former employee of Weinstein, said he raped her during a business trip to New York in the late 1970s.[43] Miriam "Mimi" Haleyi, a production crew member, said Weinstein forcibly performed oral sex on her in his New York City apartment in 2006 when she was in her twenties.[119] Dominique Huett said Weinstein forcibly performed oral sex on her and then carried out another sexual act in front of her.[120] Natassia Malthe said in 2008, Weinstein barged into her London hotel room at night and raped her.[83][121] Jessica Mann testified in 2020 that Weinstein raped her on March 18, 2013.[84][88] Rose McGowan wrote on Twitter that she told the Amazon Studios head Roy Price that Weinstein had raped her, but Price ignored this and continued collaborating with Weinstein.[122] Price later resigned from his post following sexual harassment allegations against him.[123] Annabella Sciorra said that, in the early 1990s, Weinstein forced himself into her apartment, shoved her onto her bed and raped her.[68][124] Melissa Thompson, a tech entrepreneur, told Sky News Weinstein raped her in his hotel room following a business meeting in 2011.[125][126][127] Wende Walsh, model and aspiring actress said that when she was working as a waitress at an Elmwood Avenue bar in the late 1970s, Weinstein begged her for a ride and then once inside the car, he sexually assaulted her.[79][115] An unnamed woman told The New Yorker that Weinstein invited her into a hotel room on a pretext, and "forced himself on [her] sexually" despite her protests.[26] An unnamed actress told the Los Angeles Times that in 2013, Weinstein "bullied his way" into her hotel room, grabbed her by the hair, dragged her into the bathroom and raped her.[128] An anonymous woman who works in the film industry says in a civil claim she filed in the U.K. in November 2017 that he sexually assaulted her several times sometime after 2000.[79] An unnamed Canadian actress says he sexually assaulted her in 2000. She filed suit against him in 2017.[79] An unnamed actress sued Weinstein for sexual battery and assault, alleging that in 2016 he forced her into sex.[129]
That may be, but what he did was not necessarily illegal though. Or not close to the same criminal category of rape, or more difficult to prosecute or initiate a lawsuit over. So I believe some of these women may have exaggerated about exactly what he did to them and lied. I believe it's important to look at the order in which they accused him. The accusations came in three stages. First there were the accusations of sexual misconduct and coercing women to have sex. But still he was not accused of rape at that point. This was immediately shown in the media across the U.S. Next were the first couple of allegations of rape. Women who were more credible. Like the current governor's wife (I think she was the first or second). These women were probably not motivated by money. It's probable that Weinstein did something to them and coerced sex from them. But I think it's possible these first few women partially lied to make it seem like a rape, trying to make sure Weinstein would get punished for what he did. The third stage was an endless long list of women from all over the world piling on to the list. I think these women were motivated mostly by money. Accuse Weinstein so they could try to sue for lots of money. Maybe a few of these women had also been taken advantage of by Weinstein, but I suspect most of them he never actually had sex with. It's quite a long list of women who accused him of rape. But don't you find it suspicious that not one of those women accused him of rape within the same year that the supposed rape allegedly occurred? Seems like a statistical improbability to me. Most of them are liars. Easy for a woman to accuse a man of a rape that happened 7 years ago. Would be virtually impossible to ever be able to prove the woman was lying. No risk of punishment. If she thinks she can sue that man for a million dollars, why wouldn't she sue? Especially if it already looks like that man is going to spend the rest of his life in prison, and all those women already think he deserves to spend a long time in prison and is a reprehensible human being.
It's pathological to just believe women, when there's no possible way to prove that they are lying, and when we are as a society are stupidly paying women money to accuse rich men of rape. These women just saw on the news that other women were already accusing him, and they hopped aboard the gravy train. The first two women who accused him of actual rape probably had reasons to lie that were not about money; and there's no reason not to believe all the accusations of non-rape sexual misconduct that were made against him before that.
I think we will continue to see this phenomena grow in the future. It will be common for throngs of women to come forward trying to get their share of money after they see in the news that a wealthy famous celebrity has been accused of rape or sexual misconduct. I don't think rich men should be made to pay money for rape. Especially when the evidence comes only from allegations made by victims and we cannot be completely sure it happened. In my opinion, the standard practice for handling rape should be to send the man to prison for only (maybe) 3 to 4 years, if the evidence is only the accusation from a victim (if we as a society decide to send the man to prison at all), much longer than that if there is some solid evidence to back up the claims of the victims, and that NO payouts of money should be involved. The problem with the Weinstein case was the use of the allegations of other women about separate alleged incidents as the "evidence" for all the other allegations. Like there is no real evidence for any individual accusation, but some people want to believe them all because of the high number of accusations. I just think there is a huge problem when there do not exist 2 witnesses to corroborate any single alleged crime. You can argue it is "evidence" technically, but in my opinion it is not the type of solid primary evidence that would exist if, say we had a witness who observed something that corroborated the details of another woman's specific story. In other words, "I saw him go into her bedroom and then heard a woman screaming" is much stronger supporting evidence for one woman's rape claim than "He raped me too".
His wealth made him a target. (That and his known past sexual mistreatment of women. With that in place, it only took 1 false rape accusation to start the chain of events and, with a little extensive media coverage, cause false accusers to start piling on) Everyone knows that if a man is very wealthy, the courts will make him pay out very large amounts of money. Of course the accusers knew that before they came forward. The huge news coverage over these accusations that were coming out at the time also told the public how rich Weinstein was. 14 of the accusers ended up getting $385,000 each. Then on top of that another $24 million to be divided amongst those and other additional accusers. For comparison, the median actress salary in the U.S. is $43,400 a year, and that's only if they can continue to find full-time work, which is usually not a given. That income would be especially low if they are living in the high cost Hollywood-Los Angeles or New York City area, which many of these women were.
