Washington recognized the natives of the Kuriles as Japanese. Great News! Finally !

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by litwin, Dec 12, 2020.

  1. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    sounds like 1917 all over again for Moscow´s empire,) USA is 100% right , 4 islands belong to our ally Japan , and Moscow ´s illegal occupiers must leave them

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    For years, the United States has considered Russians born in the South Kuril Islands to be natives of Japan. This is stated in the rules for the drawing of green cards, published on the website of the State Department, the Japanese newspaper Hokkaido Shimbun drew attention to them.
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    “Persons born on the islands of Habomai, Shikotan, Kunashir and Iturup belong to Japan. P
    ersons born in South Sakhalin belong to Russia, ”reads the instructions for those wishing to participate in the Diversity Visa program.

    https://tekdeeps.com/washington-recognized-the-natives-of-the-kuriles-as-japanese/
     
  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Our opinion doesn't really matter over there.
     
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The islands north of Hokkaido are of negligible value, and historically the Japanese culture did not extend that far north until relatively recent times.

    The thing a lot of people do not really understand about the geography of Japan is that as you start going much far north of the Tokyo region, the average climatic temperatures begin going down very fast. This has to do with ocean currents as well as cold winds originating from Siberia.

    About 600 years ago (still relatively recent in history) it was mostly hunter-gatherers in Northern Japan and Hokkaido, still a wilderness, and the central government mostly only exerted nominal indirect control.
    No one really wants to live that far north on those islands. Maybe only a few natives, only because that's where their ancestors and tribe have lived for a long time, and they still have a way of life that involves fishing and hunting furs, which they can do because of the extremely sparse population.

    The reason Russia does not want to release its hold on the islands are due to strategic geopolitical security reasons. In the event there was ever a large war, those islands could be used as a convenient base to launch attacks from, or to act as a wall to keep Russia from being able to get out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  4. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This doesn't necessarily recognize Japanese sovereignty over the islands as much it recognizes most of the people there are Ainu in ethnicity, and are considered to be much closer to the Japanese than Russians.
    That's sort of the whole point of the diversity program, which takes culture/nationality into account for the purposes of immigration.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Yea, the early 9th Century CE. That is really "recent", only about 1,200 years. Hell, the English, German, French, and Spanish languages are all much newer than that.

    In fact, it was annexed over 150 years before Okinawa was annexed. So are for some reason they "less Japanese", even though they have belonged to the Empire for over twice as long as Okinawa? And nobody ever questions that they are "Japanese".

    And most of the "Japanese" on the islands were actually ejected by the Soviets, and they resettled the island with their own people. And thousands more in the decades since have left as refugees, but thankfully Japan recognizes them as "Japanese", even if they were born in an area occupied by another country. Hence, the issue with passports.
     
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Um... no. I'm not sure where you're getting your research from. The Japanese did not reach those islands until the late 1800s.

    Of course the Ainu people lived there before, but there was not really much of a strong culture on those northern islands. Agriculture was not possible due to the colder climate (and without agriculture you don't get much of a civilization).

    The culture in Okinawa was always much more similar to Japan than it was to Korea or China. Becoming annexed by Japan was a natural fit.

    I think you also might be forgetting that Okinawa had already become a part of a southern Japanese daimyo domain 270 years before being officially annexed by Japan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it was not. Their culture and language was predominantly from Chinese.

    After the annexation, they worked hard to destroy the Ryukyuan culture and language. Even during WWII, only the youngest spoke "Japanese", the adults still largely spoke their own language (which is not the same as Japanese). And we know for a fact that Karate went to Japan from China through Okinawa.

    Heck, even the Shisa (Guardian lion-dog statues) that are only seen occasionally in Japan came from Okinawa. And Okinawa got it from the Chinese, who call it "Shi Shi". In Japan they are normally only seen at holy sites, but on Okinawa they are everywhere. About half of the houses seemed to have a pair at the gate, as well as many businesses. It is only really in the last several decades (as the WWII generation died off) that Okinawa really became "Japanese".
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It was influenced by the Chinese, at an earlier point in their history, and many Chinese immigrated, but before that it was closer to Japan in culture.
    Japan too was strongly influenced by the Chinese at an early time in their history, and probably experienced Chinese immigration at a very early time in their prehistory.

    Settlers from around the Fujian area in China were probably the original settlers in Okinawa and Southern Japan in ancient prehistory times, probably contributing 40 to 70 percent of the genes in the genepool.

    The original Ryukyuan languages were still closer to Japanese than they were to Chinese.

    I'm not saying the Ryukyuan culture was the same as Japanese culture, but it is similar to it and can be grouped closer to it than to any other culture.
    Those islands are really too small to be their own independent country, so if they had to be part of another country, Japan would be the best cultural fit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Don't tell that to Bahrain, Dominica, Tonga, Singapore, Micronesia, Monaco, Malta, or over 2 dozen countries. If included in a list of "Smallest Countries", Okinawa would be #26. So I imagine those 25 countries that are even smaller really should not count, but there they are.
     

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