Were people “stupid” back then?

Discussion in 'History & Past Politicians' started by blackTru, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. blackTru

    blackTru Newly Registered

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    Okay this whole argument started with me and my friend talking about the importance of school education....wich opened a whole new argument and lead you to thinking.

    So i tell him (because he takes education very serious) I just want to know how in the hell the world made it to the 20th century without public education?

    And he answers: Prior to the 20th century, treating people (including within our own families) like animals or worse was commonplace.

    Was that respond a reach, or was it really like that? Would really like to know more about us evolving as humans, what are your thoughts?
     
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Donor

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    To some extent that's true, but a lot of it had to do with poverty... or rather the effect that prevalent poverty had on the culture. I'm not sure if that's something easy for you to understand. The rise of the modern-day thriving middle class didn't really come about until the 20s, then was put on hold during the Depression and eventually came back in the 50s.
     
  3. Natural Citizen

    Natural Citizen Active Member

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    Public education is a complete failure. And there's no authority in the Constitution for the federal government to be dealing with education.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  4. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Only in your country. In others (including mine), public schools consistently produce the highest academic results.
     
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  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Education has little to do with intelligence. Stupid people can get through college.

    They were as intelligent thousands of years ago as we are now.
     
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  6. Natural Citizen

    Natural Citizen Active Member

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    Well, I don't know what country you live in, but you're likely right. We're near the bottom of the list in most categories when it comes to education in comparison with other nations.

    A hot discussion on education over here on this side of the pond usually entails whether boys and men can shower with the girls.

    Hoew's that for evolution?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good education is affected more by culture than by the education system. For instant Asians and Jews do better, not because of the system but because of cultural pressure.
     
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  8. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing wrong with your public education. There is something very wrong with your parental attitudes to education.
     
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  9. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I was attempting to say, above.
     
  10. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    The UK doesn't have a constitution and the UK seems to out perform the US...maybe you should get rid of your constitution...;)
     
  11. Natural Citizen

    Natural Citizen Active Member

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    crank made a good point. Parental attitudes to education is a big problem. I can't deny that.
     
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  12. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    I think your mate is not wrong,but maybe missing a couple of vital elements for example the way the world was turned on its axis by the advent of mechanisation and the end of WWI both of which created massive changes to social structures and how the aspirations of peoples changed. For example women coming into the work place in a meanful way during WW1. Prior to that communities generally specialised in a certain craft or industrial process (coalmining, weaving, pottery) whereas after WW1 whole communities were decimated and displaced and aspirations changed. Education in a structured way was demanded by and for the workforce in order to operate and maintain factories and equipment etc. Emerging industries like electrical or chemical were becoming more industrial and complex demanding better educated workers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  13. perdidochas

    perdidochas Advisor Staff Member

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    We are not near the bottom. We are about average. Not that that is anything to brag about, but let's keep things accurate.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-of-math-science-reading-skills-2016-12
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
  14. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    I think your universities are pretty well up on top... after Oxford and maybe Cambridge...;)
     
  15. Natural Citizen

    Natural Citizen Active Member

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  16. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says, "Dat's right - we coulda won dat war if it hadn't been fer alla hippies an' peaceniks...
    [​IMG]
    Military Victory But Political Defeat: The Tet Offensive 50 Years Late
    January 29, 2018 - Looking back a half century, to when they were young officers, their memories of the battle of Hue are still fresh. "What I saw was probably the most intense ground fighting on a sustained basis over several days of any other period during the war," says Howard Prince, an Army captain who worked with South Vietnamese forces. "We were under fire, under heavy fire," says Jim Coolican, a Marine captain.
     
  17. Mr_Truth

    Mr_Truth Well-Known Member

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    the Constitution empowers the government to promote the common welfare and to take any steps that are "necessary and proper" to do so

    by contrast, the Constitution makes no provision for engaging in foreign wars but right wingers love to do so because it creates huge profits for the rich
     
  18. perdidochas

    perdidochas Advisor Staff Member

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    Of course the Constitution has provision for foreign wars.

    Article I, Section 8:
    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
    (snip)
    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
     
  19. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Total incorrect reading of the Constitution, but a reading the "progressives" love. By that reading, the federal govt can do anything it wants, it has unlimited power, and that is clearly contrary to the Constitution and all of the writings by the writers and signers of the Constitution. Take US govt 101.
     
  20. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    People were not "stupid" before the 20th century. People confuse technological level with intelligence. Technology is a continuous process of incremental advancement, modern technology is the result of a 6000 year process.

    The real difference is free time, not intelligence. When people had to spend all their time on growing and collecting food just to survive, and on protecting themselves from the elements, then there is little time for anything else such as art or science or schools. Innovation and advancement is slow.

    As people learned about agriculture and husbandry, they had a little more free time. It was not until the industrial revolution that people had real free time to the point where some people did not have to worry at all about collecting food or protection from the elements, those people could spend all their time on art and science and inventions.

    The more free time people have, the more resources they can spend on advancing technology. As technology advances it gives people more free time. The process feeds on itself.
     
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  21. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I doubt 1 in 10 American college graduates now could pass a typical 8th grader test in the 1800s.

    Salina , KS - 1895

    1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
    2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no modifications.
    3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
    4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb? Give Principal Parts of do, lie, lay and run.
    5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
    6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.

    7-10. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

    Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
    1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
    2. A wagon box is 2 ft. deep, 10 feet long, and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
    3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50 cts. per bu, deducting 1050 lbs. for tare?
    4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
    5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
    6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
    7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $.20 per inch?
    8. Find bank discount on $300 for 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
    9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
    10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.


    U.S. History (Time, 45 minutes)

    1. Give the epochs into which U.S. History is divided.
    2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
    3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
    4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
    5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
    6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
    7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
    8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, and 1865?


    Orthography (Time, one hour)

    1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic orthography, etymology, syllabication?
    2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
    3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, subvocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
    4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u'.
    5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e'. Name two exceptions under each rule.

    6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
    7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: Bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, super.
    8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: Card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
    9. Use the following correctly in sentences, Cite, site, sight, fane, fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
    10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

    Geography (Time, one hour)

    1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
    2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
    3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
    4. Describe the mountains of N.A.
    5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall and Orinoco.
    6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
    7. Name all the republics of Europe and give capital of each.
    8. Why is the Atlantic Coast colder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
    9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
    10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give inclination of the earth.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  22. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The average American is FAR less educated now than in the past. WW2's victory gave the USA 40% of the total wealth of the world, allowing mental laziness and job assurance. Added came the PCism in which actual knowledge was considered irrelevant and was replaced with abstract and worthless teaching of philosophy and sociology.

    I doubt half of high school graduates could divide simple fractions to save their lives. Division of fractions used to be required to advance beyond the 5th grade.

    If you could not pass the test in my previous message you could not advance beyond the 8th grade. Most American students now would never make it past the 5th grade.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  23. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wrong. One of my children attended a charter school with less than 50 students for the entire high school class. It was way less than 1/2 of 1% of students in high school of that age range. Yet that tiny student body won EVERY of the many science fair categories 1st place and all but one of the 2nd place awards. That sole 2nd place was not won by a student of the regular public schools, but the Catholic high school. All the high schools in the area combined could not win or even place in science fair. Yet they all met and followed state requirements and guidelines.

    This was not a rich kids school, attendance was free as a public school. That public charter school pushed students HARD, but also had hands-on actual education, field trip education, and were required to do actual studies they could document. Any grammar or spelling error reduced the grade. If anything was failing, the student had to do it again - from scratch. Homework was heavy and hard.

    And OMG they had the older students literally teaching the younger ones under the brilliant theory of the best way to get a student to learn material is to make the student a teacher to teach other students the materials. By having senior students teaching some of the sophomore student classes there was no teacher shortage. It also meant the peer pressure at the school was to study and learn, instead of being a class clown jerk-off. There were no "participation" awards and no athletic program - though could do athletics thru another school's program. There also were no social behavior and PCism classes. Some students were gay. There were no gay sensitive classes. No chit-chat classes. No "how do you feel?" classes. Only 1 administrator, who also was a full time teacher. 3 teachers plus that administrator - the entire school.

    Losing EVERY science fair category to that tiny, under-funded public charter school was SO humiliating to the public school system they 1.) eliminated the budget for national science fair to prevent any of those students winning nationally and 2.) slashed the budget of the charter school - which already had lower cost per student budget.

    Nor was it just science fair victories. Those high school students papers were being published in scientific and other national academic publications. A few corporations had given grants for those students to do studies for their companies. The list of success was long - and the students would come to love to be recognized as winners. The goal? To push, lead and guide each student to become an academic superstar in the categories the student most interested in. That each student's pride would NOT be in how cool or popular the student was - nor how counter culture enlightened - but rather in the rewards and recognition that comes from obtaining real, acquired knowledge. Real knowledge.

    Every student of the charter school either went on to college OR joined the military. All that went to college did so on scholarships. Nearly half joined the military, aware that they can earn college credits faster in the military than out of it, plus then the benefits of military service. With their academic credentials, nearly all immediately were put into officer training.

    Yes, parents are part of the problem, so is society and the media. But the schools in most areas are a disaster. Children are treated by administrators like managing a herd of cattle. The sole purpose of the teachers are to 1.) get the students to pass the state testing and 2.) to put any student who won't pass into special education (meaning no education) to take them out the testing. They - at best - teach for the tests, nothing else. For that, they essentially cheat by teaching ONLY what they know will be tested.

    While most, not all, of the regular school students could pass the state graduation testing - excluding all those not required to by being put into special education and of course also not counting the over 20% dropouts, that tiny hands-on, no nonsense charter school students were winning state Science Bowl, having no notice what might be asked on any science question of any kind. No, the attendance was not limited to academically gifted kids - but rather by a random lottery of all public school students who wanted to attend - with only a few slots possible each school year.

    Rather than expanding that awesome PUBLIC system, the school board since has essentially shut it down. That charter school didn't need an army of administrators or piles of money, so its success was its undoing. Literally, that it actually taught students - successfully and cheaply - was its undoing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  24. Max Rockatansky

    Max Rockatansky Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There's a difference between stupidity and ignorance. "You can't fix stupid" as the wise man said (Ron White).

    Ignorance is cured with education. Nothing cures stupidity except death.


     
  25. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Are we any less stupid today when compared to what we have yet to learn?
     

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