What About Those In Non-Christian Lands Who Have Never Heard The Gospel?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by JAG*, Jul 8, 2023.

  1. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    There is no suggestion that Cain brought less than his best.

    He was a "tiller of the ground". He brought an offering of his work. God gave Cain's offer no respect.

    I don't believe this aspect of the story can be so easily blown off.
     
  2. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Nor does he actually earn total condemnation from god. God goes on to protect him. Cain raises Enoch who is such a devoted follower that God takes him into the heavens never to be seen again.
     
  3. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    "Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord.
    And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof."
    It's clear to me in the story that Cain offered the common, and Abel offered his best in reverence and honor in his heart to God. If Cains heart were so right, then why murder his Brother if not in keeping with his motivations et al?
     
  4. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    If it’s clear to you, it’s not because of the text of the story.
     
  5. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    It's your religion. But, when I read the Bible I see it as surprising that God rejected the best of what Cain had to offer.

    Was it God's view that Cain should have sold his agricultural products and bought a valid offering from his brother?

    How does this relate to the reaction by Jesus to the Pharisees selling offerings at the temple?
     
  6. Bippy123

    Bippy123 Active Member

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    you misquoted john:6
    You said that no one comes to the father except through faith in Jesus . This is the actual verse .
    “I am the way and the truth and the life.No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6).

    the problem here is that someone has to actially not only reject Jesus but he has to know that Jesus is the messiah and understand it fully .

    your quote of scripture is called exclusivism .

    my view and the view of the early Christian’s is called inclusivism died for people that knew him and didn’t know him through innocent ignorance of Christ .now what constitutes innocent ignorance ? Only God knows this as only God knows everyone’s hearts .

    As I said the earliest Christian’s were inclusivists . Here Justin martyr writing in 155 ad called some of the pagan atheists of his day friends of Christ because of their good works and love towards others because no one can do good unless chriat is working within him .

    some of the modern giants of Christianity were also Christian inclusivists like CS lewis , William lane craig and billy graham . Billy graham is one extreme spectrum of this view because he believes that some atheists can make it to heaven , William lane craig believed that people who never fully heard the word are judged by a different standard then believers and CS lewis was an agnostic inclusivist as he didn’t know their fate .

    here is a good link to Christian inclusivism.

    https://wesleyanarminian.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/respected-inclusivist-theologians/

    Justin Martyr, 103–165: “We have been taught that Christ is the first-born of God, and we have declared above that He is the Word of whom every race of men were partakers; and those who lived reasonably are Christians, even though they have been thought atheists; as, among the Greeks, Socrates and Heraclitus, and men like them; and among the barbarians, Abraham, and Ananias, and Azarias, and Misael, and Elias, and many others…”(The First Apology 46)


    Billy Graham, Evangelist, 1918- “I think that everybody that loves Christ knows Christ, whether they’re conscious of it or not, they’re members of the body of Christ… Whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they’ve been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts they need something that they don’t have and they turn to the only light they have and I think they’re saved and they’re going to be with us in heaven.”(Billy Graham, Interview with Robert Schuller)

    William Lane Craig, Apologist, 1949- ” But the Bible says that the unreached will be judged on a quite different basis than those who have heard the gospel. God will judge the unreached on the basis of their response to His self-revelation in nature and conscience. The Bible says that from the created order alone, all persons can know that a Creator God exists and that God has implanted His moral law in the hearts of all persons so that they are held morally accountable to God (Rom. 1.20; 2.14-15). The Bible promises salvation to anyone who responds affirmatively to this self-revelation of God (Rom. 2.7)..” (Craig, Can a Loving God Send People to Hell?)

    C.S. Lewis, Apologist, 1898-1963: “…But the truth is God has not told us what His arrangements about the other [unreached] people are. We do know that no man can be saved except through Christ; we do not know that only those who know Him can be saved through Him.” (Lewis, Mere Christianity)
     
  7. Bippy123

    Bippy123 Active Member

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    Sounds to me like you had a letter of the law catholic
    Upbringing .
    I grew up catholic as well but experimented with other religions like the Hare Krishnas and Buddhism before becoming an agnostic and finally an atheist at age 40 .

    I eventually came back to believing in God because of science , reason , logic and history and back to Christianity and Catholicism.
    It was a 4 year journey back and a lot of deep digging and deep
    Doubting .

    from my last post I’m an inclusivist which mess. That although I’m
    A Christian I believe that people other then Christian’s can make it to heaven as God understand a it’s not easy navigating through this life with all the circumstances we go through .

    I came back through those 4 cerebral reasons and not through a personal
    Encounter of God so I’m a work in progress as far as the gifts of the spirit but I have an amazing best friend whose a messianic Jew who treats others with such kindness and love despite having 2 horrible mental disorders . I see God operating in him and he’s slowly starting to pull
    Me closer to God spiritually but like I said I’m still a long way from coming back in that aspect .

    sorry you had such a rough experience . My dad also had a rough experience as he was molested by a priest in his home Country
     

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