Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by Richard Franks, Jul 6, 2019.
Not really you made up the order in you post not some businessman.
ROFL well that has to be the understatement of the year.
Like what compared to the government?
The workers are NOT ultimately responsible for the success of the business and businesses that ignore or abuse workers don't stay in business very long especially in an economy such as we have now when they are competing to attract new workers. That's how the market works.
I don't know where you learned that but competition is what drives innovation and new products and lower prices and better products through that competition and even higher wages for workers. What you are talking about is a monopoly economy which would be the WORST economy for the workers and consumers and the country. Just look at the former communist countries. It would be the downfall of America to embrace that folly.
I'm not disputing your interpretation of my post. It's your personal view & you're welcome to it. I'm simply stating I don't recognize the distinction between business & government that you're making, or the way you're making it. As I've said repeatedly, the purpose of business & government are very different. The purpose of business is to make a profit. The purpose of government is to provide services to the general public. Both serve a legitimate & important purpose. Both are as good or as bad as the individuals empowered to control them. If you want better government, vote for individuals who want to make government function better. Electing candidates who hate government is a sure bet that they will do nothing to improve government for you. But under the right management, government can be just as successful & beneficial to society as any business. You just have to be selective in those you vote for.
2. Government is better than business in planning & building infrastructure across America; maintaining national retirement systems (like Social Security); handling national defense; making & enforcing laws; providing a national healthcare system; protecting our environment; ensuring public safety; etc. I'm sure there's much more, but I'm limited on time right now.
3. In terms of management decisions, you're right. In terms of achieving business goals, workers are very much involved & responsible. But profits don't go to them to reward them for their efforts or their time. But it should--a larger portion than most companies allow now. I know how the market works. I also know it's NOT working for the average American. It never did, but the effects are more pronounced now with increasing globalization & influence of the internet. Whether you support conventional capitalism or not, its failure in America to serve the vast majority of our citizens well, is a growing problem. Over time, increasing numbers of our people will recognize their dissolving benefits, & turn to other systems for help. I already have. Bernie Sanders is leading a growing wave of Americans who want economic change. They will eventually grow into a majority, & effect change with their votes. From my point of view, the sooner the better.
4. I learned from my own life experience, coupled with the sad state of economic disparity that we've all become increasingly aware of since 2015. I'm familiar with your conventional argument favoring capitalism. But capitalism has been working in American for over 240 years, & it's what got us into the mess we're currently experiencing. It is foolhardy to expect it to get us out. Capitalism is committed to serving the ultra-wealthy in America. But that class is small, & the rest of us form a vast ocean of economic turmoil. We need a new system to fix what's broken. Bernie Sanders suggests utilizing a combination of capitalism & socialism he calls Democratic Socialism--one which serves the whole population while protecting & preserving individual freedoms & rights. I agree with Bernie.
Democrats need to be honest and spell out their platform.
1. Planned Parenthood - need to make Planned Parenthood an agency of the government and restore all funding for abortion and the harvesting of body parts for medical research. Abortion should be legal up to 12 months after a woman is diagnosed pregnant. More abortion clinics should be available in brown and black neighborhoods in order to better control the proliferation of those species.
2. Immigration - Open all borders in order to have cheap labor and maintain a work force to care for the children of the elite working class. Well maintained landscapes at affordable prices, make neighborhood home values higher, which cities can tax at a higher base. Illegal Immigrants , granted citizenship, will become beholden to the party and expand our voter base. Those with conservative views will be vetted out and denied entry.
3. Education - Education must include indoctrination into the value of Socialism. The children must be stripped of the idea of individualism. They must be taught the "village" concept. Capitalism and Corporation-ism must be taught as evil. Free thought may not be stopped but Free Expression of those thoughts will be censured.
4. Medical and Social programs - all medical and social programs will be administered by the government which will include fees, costs and participation.
5. Wealth Distribution - Each corporations and persons wealth will be reviewed by the government and any excesses will be confiscated and used by the government for re-distribution of programs to help the lower classes. (Who say's we don't have a caste system in the USA?)
6. Diversity - It is important to keep each class of people, separated by race, religion, gender and ethnicity at a level where one group doesn't get too much power over the other with the exception of "old white men". who should be demeaned and stripped of their status. Re-write history if needed.
Interesting summary of Trump-Republican Propaganda points. They fit nicely into Trump's growing list of over 15,000 confirmed & fact-tested lies. Enjoy being there with Trump in your happy place.
My SS funds would have done FAR better had they gone into my managed accounts, private contractors plan and build the infrastructure and usually plagues with government boondoogles, you have nothing to compare the others to as we do not have a private military or police forces but as much as the left complains about the military and military spending I find it laughable you would point to that.
It depends on the level of the worker, the CEO is a worker, the VP's are workers, the middle managers are workers. And profits don't got to the workers I as assuming you are trying to separate, workers are paid salary and wages. Workers are an expense and they get paid BEFORE profits. If you want the workers to get paid out of the profits then there will be times they don't get paid. If if the company has a loss that month do the workers getting paid by profits have to help cover the expenses that month? The economy is working for the average American better than it has in decades some say better than any time in our history and especially for the lowest incomes.
"... the U.S. economy has been expanding for a decade, the jobless rate is 3.5%, and incomes are now rising faster for low-income workers than for their bosses. That includes a 5.9% annual increase for the bottom tenth of workers during the Trump Presidency, more than double the rate in President Obama’s second term. The bottom half of households have seen their net worth increase by 47% since the 2016 election, according to a report by the White House Council of Economic Advisers.
A late 2019 Quinnipiac poll found 57% of Americans said they were better off financially than in 2016 while 22% said they were worse off. A Fidelity year-end survey found 78% expect to be better off in 2020 compared to 2019.
The party out of power has to make the case for change. But the challenge for Democrats pitching carnage will be persuading Americans that they shouldn’t believe the economy they see with their own eyes."
There is no other system that has produced more wealth and security for more people of all levels
What "mess" are you talking about. What economic turmoil. Have you read the financials today, after the trade deals the experts are predicting and even better 2020 of 2019 and 2019 was a BANNER year. Housing is going through the roof, consumer confidence remains strong, incomes continue to rise, jobs are aplenty. Why would you want to end that an go back to policies that snuffed out jobs, and growth, and a future just because you jealous of the "ultra-wealthy"?
Truth hurts Huh?
What bad thing(s) will happen? He will invade Mexico, exterminate Muslims, disband the congress? I personally don't suffer any repercussions from the election of any president, Democrat or Republican. Never have.
You can't let politicians live in your brain and remain free.
I doubt we will see an honest election for a long time. He will almost certainly cancel any kind of Universal Health Care and he quite probably will dismantle Medicare and even Social Security (He says he won't, but we know how much that means and these two things have been the main Republican desiderata for decades, doing that would be a great legacy in his mind.)
He MAY quite really have some sort of violent altercation with Mexico. Hell, I'm expecting our Navy to have landings on Greenland any day now.
I think you are pulling my leg. No one except paranoid hysterics believes any of that stuff, and you are not a paranoid hysteric, therefore ...
Honestly, the "main Republican desiderata" is to dismantle both Medicare and SS? You are obviously confusing them with Libertarians.
2.14 Retirement and Income Security
Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become even more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm.
I actually agree with the Libertarians on this. We've gotten so used to nanny giving us money that we've come to think it's a normal function of government. And we want more ... free tuition, free health care, cancellation of credit card and student loan debt. Gimme gimme gimme.
Anyway the is from the Republican platform:
More than 100 million Americans depend on Medicare or Medicaid for their healthcare; with our population aging, that number will increase. To preserve Medicare and Medicaid, the financing of these important programs must be brought under control before they consume most of the federal budget, including national defense. The good news is that it can be done, and it can be done without endangering the elderly and the needy who depend on those programs. We intend to save Medicare by modernizing it, empowering its participants, and putting it on a secure financial footing.
I cannot imagine what your disagreement is with any of that, but the point is it debunks your claim about the Republican agenda.
The Democrats want, first of all, someone who subscribes to the teachings of the Church of Karl Marx ("Marxist").
Secondly, they want someone who is a socialist (whether that be in the fascist form or in the communist form).
Thirdly, they want someone who subscribes to the teachings of the Church of Global Warming (a "climate change believer").
Fourthly, they want someone who is racist, bigoted, hate-filled, divisive, lies, hates freedom, and hates one having control over oneself ("self-governance").
How, specifically, do you intend to do all those things?
Reduce benefits drastically for high income earners, right away, and slightly (and gradually) for everyone else. I am open to other ideas, but will not take seriously any claim that there is no problem. Because if there isn't, we should just quadruple benefits for everyone and party hearty until we become Venezuela.
1. The very fact that you have personal "managed accounts" places you in a class substantially different from 90% of Americans. You're right, you would have been better off managing your own SS funds, but that doesn't apply to most Americans, who are generally ignorant about how the Market works.
2. I know, in general terms, how the capitalist system works. It IS a powerful tool for the production of things & wealth, but it doesn't work for every need of society. Plus, it works primarily for the wealthy, who have the funds to invest into it. True, there's some "trickle down" benefits that reach the bottom dwellers, but that flow has decreased substantially since the 1950s, till it is now at a disgraceful level.
3. It is true that unemployment figures are at their lowest for several decades. This is happening now, in Trump's administration PARTLY because of the difficult economic decisions & policies carried out BY OBAMA. Trump is reaping many benefits created by Obama earlier. But unemployment figures don't show the very real fact that many new job openings are for part-time &/or minimum wage jobs, which aren't "living wage" positions.
4. I'm not one of them.
5. The economy you refer to here is making huge gains for the wealthiest among us, boosting the poorest a bit, & ignoring the middle class entirely.
6. I recently watched a timely documentary on the countries of Finland & Denmark--both Democratic Socialist countries, where every worker gets six weeks paid vacation, free medical coverage, free or affordable child care, free college tuition, & career retraining if & when needed--all supplied thru national taxes that are no higher than what we pay in America for none of those benefits in return. In America, even our taxes end up going to large corporations & their owners, & today I heard Trump wants to cut the limited, but important, social programs we have now, like Social Security & Medicare. Everything Trump does is for the benefit of the wealthiest.
7. The statistics you rely on to support your point of view, don't qualify where all that new wealth ends up, or who it actually benefits. It turns out, it benefits the uppermost 2% of our richest families, & few others. The economy is healthy in terms of its productivity & growth, but it is a failure in its disbursement. More & more Americans are gradually losing ground, & feel more & more marginalized. We need to change our system so it benefits a greater portion of our national population--especially the middle & lower classes. Adopting more socialist programs & policies that do that, while retaining the productivity of capitalism, would be a good way to do that. I agree with Bernie Sanders on this.
Actually that is quite untrue, there are a number of industries that cannot fill good paying jobs due to a labor shortage and a general disliking of jobs that require physical labor and working outside.
When I separated from AT&T Core S.E. in 2016 and went over to wireless, we had 1500 openings in the 9 state region for DT's, in just 1 year I was asked to train 3 new-hires and none of them made it past 2 months, 2 quit because it was too hot outside and the other quit because he didn't like climbing ladders, the last new-hire I trained stayed on and I know she is still with the company, because once in a while she calls me with a tech support question.
And they pay well, newbies start at something like $22 per hour and max out at $37 per hour, with good medical benefits a matching 401k and 2 weeks vacation which goes to 6 weeks after 5 years.
And there is an old saying in the phone company "no one has ever died from working too hard around here."
What Do Dems. Want in a Pres. Candidate?
ANYBODY Who Can Beat Trump...
First, it's not true than "no one ever died from working too hard." Many have. Second, your post appears to support the often cited fact that the vast majority of Americans AREN'T WILLING to subject themselves to hard, physical, uncomfortable work. That fact has been used to support allowing immigrants to live & work here. Perhaps it's not an empty point?
Reducing benefits means ending them and probably sooner rather than later. Increasing taxes progressively but only slightly is more than enough to keep the system solvent until after the baby-boomer crisis has died. I don't say there is no problem but I do believe it to be vastly overstated and have no idea what a nation bankrupted by low oil prices has to do with this matter at all.
If we do not beat Trump and the Republicans now it is quite possible we may never be allowed to. Mark my words, these are not the normal American political factions. These are authoritarian tyrants. They are quite capable of using blatant political crimes to seize power as they have already done so and it far from unreasonable to suggest they will continue to do so and be even worse in the future if they get away with it this time.
One that can win. This is about power.
How about keeping things in context, I stated, And there is an old saying in the phone company "no one has ever died from working too hard around here."
Maybe in other industries people have died from working too hard, but not in the phone company.
The work is neither physical nor uncomfortable, employee's are not allowed to lift anything over 60 pounds without assistance or a machine, and we pace ourselves when it is too hot or too cold, the problem is too many younger people are just flat out lazy and anything other than operating a keyboard is too much work.
And the problem is largely a male problem, females tend to pace themselves from the get go and realize long term the money and benefits beats anything they could make in a traditional female job such as sitting at a desk.
Immigrants are always welcome at the phone company, if they are U.S. citizens, if they are not, they cannot pass the security screening, they same applies to someone who has a criminal history they will not pass the screening and will not be hired.
Not according to my dictionary. Anyway, they should be ended for people who don't need them. I wouldn't care if a taxpayer reporting very high income had to reimburse the government for previously drawn benefits.
Trump is eligible for social security right now, though I doubt that he draws it. Bloomberg, Bezos, Bernie, Buffet, Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'neal, Bill Gates, E.
Warren, Schumer, every senator practically, who get pensions to boot.
I see no reason not to disallow them from drawing benefits.
And then the income disallowed will get lower and lower.
They've paid in, they're entitled, And please, none of this bs about the amount out being greater than the amount in, Ever hear of an annuity?
And if Bernie or Elizabeth wins what do you forecast for your outlook?
Separate names with a comma.