What will happen with Israel & Palestine?

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Ronstar, Mar 13, 2014.

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What will happen with Israel & Palestine?

  1. The situation will be the same as today.

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  2. Israel will evacuate to the Seperation Barrier

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  3. Israel will annex the West Bank and give citizenship to all residents

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Israel will annex the West Bank and send the Palestinians to Jordan

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  5. Two states will be achieved

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  6. The Arabs will destroy Israel

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. who knows

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. who cares

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  9. what's Israel?

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  10. what's Palestine?

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. MuslimAmericanWoman

    MuslimAmericanWoman New Member

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    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/03/aipac-american-watchdog-israeli--20143364625282798.html

    A lobby group that districts completely from the needs of American Citizens - to advocate for BILLIONS upon BILLIONS of dollars ANNUALY to be HANDED OVER to a FOREIGN GOVERNMENT to build arsenals of mass destruction and an apartheid policy of expansion at the expense of ancient Palestinians is NOT in America's best interest or American Citizens.

    AMERICAN CITIZENS can't even pay their damn bills.
    They will not RALLY AROUND A FOREIGN COUNTRY say, 'Please give all of our money to a foreign country to build illegal settlements. It's okay. I will continue to starve in the United States and not be able to feed my kids.'

    Lies upon lies.

    They stronghold our very own politicians to hand over U.S. tax money.



    Who Rules America?

    Quick Facts About AIPAC
    Press TV, Mon Apr 25, 2011 10:8PM


    Highlights

    The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) has a dangerous stranglehold over U.S. foreign policy towards the Middle East. Moveoveraipac.org

    In April 2005, AIPAC policy director Steven Rosen and AIPAC senior Iran analyst Keith Weissman were fired by AIPAC amid an FBI investigation into whether they passed classified U.S. information on to Israel. Democraticunderground.com

    AIPAC has also lobbied heavily for U.S. funding of various Israeli weapons programs, including Israel's Arrow missile defense system. Rightweb.irc-online.org

    AIPAC

    AIPAC's unrelenting support for the illegal policies of the Israeli government-separation walls, settlements, the siege of Gaza-in addition to its bellicose policies across the region, especially Iran, has been devastating for Palestinians and the Middle East, including Israel. Moveoveraipac.org

    The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) was incorporated in 1963 by Isaiah L. "Si" Kenen. Waronyou.com

    AIPAC claims to have more than 100,000 members and its website prominently displays a New York Times blurb about the group, which claims that the group is the "most important organization affecting America's relationship with Israel." Rightweb.irc-online.org

    AIPAC & US Politics

    Pro-Israel interests have contributed $56.8 million in individual, group, and soft money donations to federal candidates and party committees since 1990, according to the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics. Metapedia.org

    Between the 2000 and the 2004 elections, the 50 members of AIPAC's board donated an average of $72,000 each to campaigns and political action committees." Metapedia.org

    AIPAC claims it "has a stranglehold on Congress." With a $47 million a year budget and more than 100 full-time staffers, it is no doubt a formidable advocate for Israel's interests. Isreview.org

    In March 2009, AIPAC executive director Howard Kohr appeared before the House Committee on Appropriations' Foreign Operations subcommittee to testify about the importance of U.S. aid to Israel. Worldwideinfoforum.com

    Kohr requested that Israel receive $2.775 billion in military aid in fiscal year 2010, as called for in the 2007 Memorandum of Understanding between the U.S. and Israel that allocates $30 billion in aid for Israel over 10 years. Worldwideinfoforum.com

    AIPAC Controversies

    In 1992, AIPAC president David Steiner was forced to resign after he was recorded boasting about his political influence in obtaining aid for Israel. Metapedia.org

    Steiner claimed that he had met with then Bush U.S. Secretary of State Jim Baker and he cut a deal with him. Sherdog.net

    "I got, besides the $3 billion, you know they're looking for the Jewish votes, and I'll tell him whatever he wants to hear ... Besides the $10 billion in loan guarantees which was a fabulous thing, $3 billion in foreign, in military aid, and I got almost a billion dollars in other goodies that people don't even know about." Sherdog.net

    Steiner also claimed to be "negotiating" with the incoming Clinton administration over who Clinton would appoint as Secretary of State and Secretary of the National Security Agency. Docstoc.com

    In 2004 it was reported that an FBI investigation had gained evidence that a senior Pentagon analyst with close ties to Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith had provided a draft presidential directive on Iran to AIPAC that was then passed to the Israeli government. Sourcewatch.org

    In April 2005, AIPAC policy director Steven Rosen and AIPAC senior Iran analyst Keith Weissman were fired by AIPAC amid an FBI investigation into whether they passed classified U.S. information received from (Lawrence Anthony) Franklin (a U.S. Air Force Reserves colonel) on to the government of Israel. Democraticunderground.com

    In May 2005, the Justice Department announced that Lawrence Anthony Franklin, a U.S. Air Force Reserves colonel working as a Department of Defense analyst at the Pentagon in the office of Douglas Feith, had been arrested and charged by the FBI with providing classified national defense information to Israel. Metapedia.org

    On January 20, 2006, Franklin was sentenced to 151 months (almost 13 years) in prison and fined $10,000. As part of the plea agreement, Franklin agreed to cooperate in the larger federal investigation. All charges against the former AIPAC employees were dropped in 2009. Powerbot.org

    AIPAC & Israeli Military

    AIPAC has also lobbied heavily for U.S. funding of various Israeli weapons programs, including Israel's Arrow missile defense system. Rightweb.irc-online.org

    This military cooperation between the United States and Israel has resulted in the deployment of the Arrow missile defense system, and the continuing development of the Tactical High Energy Laser." Rightweb.irc-online.org

    Former U.S. Secretary of State Alexander Haig reportedly called Israel "the largest American aircraft carrier in the world." Without it, the U.S. would have to spend additional tens of billions of dollars to police the Middle East with its own troops. Isreview.org

    In the final decades of the 20th century, the United States and Israel moved into tight alliance. Every year from 1976 on, Israel was the lead recipient of U.S. foreign aid. The U.S. supported Israel as it maintained its artificial Jewish demographic majority, attacked the refugee-led Palestinian resistance, and expanded settlements further into occupied territory. Zcommunications.org

    As long as U.S. weapons continue to flow, Israel will feel free to disregard the Obama Administration's mild blandishments and half-hearted attempts to bring Israel to the negotiating table. Unfortunately this disincentive structure is set to be reinforced over the coming years. Josh Ruebner, Counterpunch.org

    Under a Bush-era agreement, U.S. weapons transfers to Israel are scheduled to total $30 billion from 2009-2018, an annual average increase of 25 percent above previous levels. With this 2007 Memorandum of Understanding, the United States solidified Israel's position as the largest recipient of U.S. military aid this decade. In line with increases proposed under this arrangement, President Obama asked for a record-breaking $3.075 billion of weapons for Israel in his 2012 budget request. Josh Ruebner, Counterpunch.org

    A new online database-"How Many Weapons to Israel?"-casts doubt on whether the United States can afford, either morally, financially or politically, to continue transferring weapons to Israel at taxpayer expense without examining the ramifications of this policy. Josh Ruebner, Counterpunch.org

    From 2000-2009, the United States licensed, paid for, and delivered to Israel more than 670 million weapons and related equipment, valued at nearly $19 billion, through three main weapons transfer programs (Foreign Military Sales, Direct Commercial Sales, and Excess Defense Articles). These weapons transfer programs accounted for nearly 80 percent of the more than $24 billion in military aid appropriated to Israel during these years. The bulk of the remaining money was spent by Israel on its own domestic arms industry, a unique exemption written into law for Israel. All other countries receiving U.S. military aid are required to spend the whole sum within the United States. Josh Ruebner, Counterpunch.org

    Military aid to Israel ran the gamut from the patently absurd-one used food steamer valued at $2,100-to the lethal-93 F-16D fighter jets valued at a total of nearly $2.5 billion. With nearly 500 categories of weapons transferred to Israel, the United States is pervasively, intricately, and comprehensively involved in arming its military. Josh Ruebner, Counterpunch.org

    RS/SM/DB

    http://www.presstv.com/usdetail/176669.html


    How Much does Israel Cost the Average American?
    By Alcibiades Bilzerian

    While so many Americans are subsisting on food stamps, losing their homes, and accumulating credit card debt they will never be able to pay off, the US is giving Israel $3 billion in direct foreign aid every year and, according to Congressman James Traficant, another $12-17 billion in indirect aid such as valuable military equipment deemed “scrapped,” loan guarantees, and preferential contracts. Israel is an affluent country with more than 10,000 millionaires and, according to the International Monetary Fund, was one of the few economies that weathered the 2008 financial storm nearly unscathed.
    It’s hard to calculate the exact amount of foreign aid America gives Israel every year because the Israeli lobby in America secretly campaigns to give the tiny desert nation as much under-the-table aid as they can secure. In 1992, AIPAC President David Steiner was caught on tape bragging about his organization’s incredible power in America. Steiner first admitted to manipulating the US Secretary of State into giving Israel more foreign aid. Steiner said he, ”met with [Secretary of State] Jim Baker and I cut a deal with him. I got, besides the $3 billion, you know they’re looking for the Jewish votes, and I’ll tell him whatever he wants to hear … Besides the $10 billion in loan guarantees which was a fabulous thing, $3 billion in foreign, in military aid, and I got almost a billion dollars in other goodies that people don’t even know about.”
    According to the General Accounting Office (GAO), Israel operates the largest spying operation on America of any of our allies, and they use some of their intelligence gathering to steal American business secrets, which costs the US jobs and money. The two largest and most powerful Israeli lobbies in America, AIPAC and the Anti-Defamation League, have both been caught red-handed spying for Israel (see the 2005 AIPAC Scandal and 1993 ADL Spying scandal). Shortly after the September 11, 2001 attacks, the FBI rounded up more than a hundred Israeli spies who were caught infiltrating dozens of federal agencies. It was one of the largest spy rings in American history.

    YouTube - Veterans Today -
    If the American government took the $15-$20 billion it gives Israel every year and put it into a savings account for the 4.5 million babies born p/yr, every American would receive $8,000-$10,500 upon turning 18 years old. In another option, the US government could give the money away in a lottery and make 15k-20k Americans millionaires every year. Either of these options would provide an incredible boost to the US economy. But the truth is that $15-$20 billion per year is probably just scratching the surface when we look at the cost of America’s relationship with Israel.
    Dr. Thomas R. Stauffer, a world renowned economist who taught economics and Middle East studies at Harvard as well as serving twice in the Executive Office of the President on a task force for oil imports and controls, estimated that as of 2002 (in 2002 dollars) Israel has cost the US $3 trillion. His estimate took into account direct military aid, political support, oil price increases as a result of conflicts, and peripheral/hidden foreign aid. It should be noted that this figure would be a gross understatement today because much of the cost of supporting Israel has been accrued since 2002 in the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and the Iran war mongering, which has led to a dramatic increase in oil costs. In addition, inflation has increased considerably since 2002 and would therefore make the figure significantly larger today.
    In Stauffer’s estimation, US aid to Israel costs 275,000 American jobs per year due to unfair trade imbalances and sanctions on Israel’s enemies. In one example of under the table aid, Stauffer pointed out that the US actually gave Russia and Romania billions of dollars in undeclared aid to facilitate Jews moving to Israel. The US has also spent hundreds of billions in the region to secure friendly relationships with Israel. John McCain admitted in an interview that US aid to Egypt is really just a bribe so the Egyptians will maintain friendly relations with Israel. The US has also given Turkey and Greece billions for the same purpose. The cost of America’s relationship to Israel today adjusted for inflation and including the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is likely to be in excess of $5 trillion, or $16k per American.
    A summary of Stauffer’s breakdown can be found here.
    First, we have to identify what Israel brings to the relationship, which as former CIA Chief Michael Scheuer points out in the video below–amounts to absolutely nothing. Not only is Israel a terrible ally, attacking America in at least two separate false flag attacks (See the lavon affair and the USS Liberty) and actively spying on America, but it it isn’t really the “only democracy in the Middle East” as the Israelis like to claim. Many Arabs in Israel can’t vote or even live with their spouses. Israel is a racist apartheid state that separates Arabs and Jews in separate and totally unequal schools and facilities, as the following article Jewish Israelis are the worst Anti-Semites On The Planet details: http://thebilzerianreport.com/?p=537. As such, America’s support of Israel causes great damage to America’s relations with oil producing states in the region.

    YouTube - Veterans Today -
    Most Americans view Israel as an ally on the front lines fighting terrorists so Americans don’t have to, but nothing could be further from the truth. The few Islamic terrorist attacks on America in the last 50 years were all a result of America’s support for the Israeli apartheid regime. After September 11, 2001, the media claimed the terrorists attacked because they: “hated our freedom.” The terrorists however stated on record that they attacked America because of its support for Israel. After all, if terrorists were going to attack a country because of its freedom they would have attacked the Netherlands or Switzerland.
    The only people arrested on 9-11 were Israeli Mossad agents who were seen filming the attacks and then celebrating afterwards. The Dancing Israelis, as they were late known, were arrested in a van that had contained explosives and a box cutter, which was identical to the ones used in the terrorist attacks. They all failed lie detector tests about their role in the attacks. Before the US government classified all information on Israel’s involvement in 9-11, the FBI officially concluded that Israel had to have known of the attack before 9-11-2001 and didn’t warn the US. After the attacks, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said, “We are benefitting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.” He also said, “these events have swung American public opinion in our favor.”
    America has spent countless treasure and lives invading Afghanistan and Iraq for Israel’s security. It’s amazing that this factual statement is still in debate today, but to clarify, Iraq had no capacity to threaten America’s security. Saddam didn’t have weapons of mass destruction or any connection to Al-Qaeda. Many Americans think their government invaded Iraq for oil, but that is completely false. America gets the vast majority of its oil from Mexico, Canada, Nigeria, and Venezuela rather than the Middle East. If America’s goal was truly to secure further energy resources it would have built a pipeline from Canada or invested in its plentiful natural gas reserves rather than spending a trillion dollars bombing and destroying Iraq’s oil production capacity and then taking no oil for its efforts.
    The architects of the Iraq war, Pearl and Wolfowitz, were both closely tied to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which mercilessly campaigned for the war. The book The Israeli Lobby and US Foreign Policy puts the primary blame of the Iraq invasion on AIPAC’s merciless lobbying for war. In January 2003, AIPAC executive director Howard Kohr stated, “quietly lobbying Congress to approve the use of force in Iraq” was one of “AIPAC’s successes over the past year.” Jeffrey Goldberg reported during a profile piece of AIPAC’s policy director Steven J. Rosen that, “AIPAC lobbied Congress in favor of the Iraq war.” The American media, which happens to have a disproportionate representation of zionist executives (see the video below or this article for proof), censored all those who disagreed with the war and labeled them unsupportive of the troops and traitors.

    YouTube - Veterans Today -
    The Israeli lobby and the Israel-supporting mainstream media are now campaigning for a war in Iran. If Israel and the US strike Iran, gas prices will likely reach $6-7 a gallon, which will have a dramatic impact on the average American. In fact, just the warmongering alone by Israel and the zionist controlled American media has caused nearly a $1 price hike. This costs the average American an extra $123 per month or $1,476 per year. With the current gas prices near $4 a barrel, the average American will spend 9% of their total income on gas. If America or Israel attack Iran, most experts estimate that it will cost the average American an additional $2952-$4428 per year.
    Even though Israel takes a great deal of money from US in direct aid and even charitable donations from Jews and Christians, according to Official Direct Assistance (ODA) Israel is one of the stingiest developed countries in the world. Israel is one of the richest countries on the planet, but gives nearly 10 times less than the world average and gives the 4th least of any developed nation per capita, only barely beating out much poorer countries like Poland, Hungary, and Turkey. So while Israel took in $3 billion from America in direct aid and $12-17 billion in the other aid measures mentioned above, they only gave $141 million in foreign aid to nations in need of assistance in 2010.
    NOTE: This article first appeared on The Bilzerian Report on 18 April 2012.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  2. BroadwayBaby

    BroadwayBaby New Member

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    I guess if Israel was surrounded by friends instead of enemies she wouldn't need military aid.
     
  3. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    She?

    Isnt Israel named after a man called ....

    Israel

    surprise!
     
  4. BroadwayBaby

    BroadwayBaby New Member

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    True. I automatically call countries 'she' but yes, you are correct!
     
  5. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    If Israel were strapped for cash they would probably make defense cuts in the form of lowering manpower at border crossings by closing many of them, finishing their wall and shortening the fuse with neighbors should they feel threatened. In short, a lot of Arabs will die which is certainly not in the interest of Palestinians or her neighbors. In turn, Israel would then attempt to make up for the cash shortfall by selling her services to Russian and Chinese interests which would cost the US billions to counter.

    In short, the pipe dream of aid being cut to Israel is just that.
     
  6. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    AS THE PATIENTS WISH TO CONTROL THE INSANE ASYLUM... i.e. Alice in wonderland etc.,
    Also writing lies over and over expecting different results.
     
  7. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Israel has no right to build its 'settlements' on occupied land. I guess you're unfamiliar with international law.
     
  8. BroadwayBaby

    BroadwayBaby New Member

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    Occupied from who?
     
  9. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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  10. BroadwayBaby

    BroadwayBaby New Member

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    The territory did not belong to any sovereign state.

    Israel gained territory in a defensive war and therefore having won the territory is entitled to keep it, and Israel did not forcibly move the Israeli population into the area.

    Therefore Israel is fully entitled to the West Bank.
     
  11. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    The law says otherwise. Furthermore the Geneva Conventions make no distinction between forcible movement of populations or otherwise.
     
  12. BroadwayBaby

    BroadwayBaby New Member

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    Prove it please.
     
  13. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    Can't be done as article 49 states;

    "Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive."

    If it made no distinction it would read "Individual or mass transfers, as well as movement of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive."

    But it does make the distinction which is why it uses the words "forcible" and "deportations."
     
  14. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    That shows how pollacks read and comprehend English...
    The man asked a legal question : FROM WHOM, acquired from WHOM...
    And the pollack answer : by WHOM and regurgitate a DEFLECTION.

    Israel is in its own realm... Gained the Land from the conqueror Trans-Jordan, then Transjordan and now Jordan! Jordan has relinquished all rights on the so called (west Bank of the river Jordan) after 19 years of occupation...

    When are the Brits going to leave North Ireland and the Malvinas? hmmmmm
     
  15. MuslimAmericanWoman

    MuslimAmericanWoman New Member

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    So the U.S. must financially support an apartheid state guilty of numerous human rights violations else many Arabs will die.

    Okay.

    Thanks for sharing!
     
  16. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    Actually no, it is in their interest, as well as the Arabs, to support the beacon of light against the hordes of hate mongers.
     
  17. stuntman

    stuntman Well-Known Member

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    Apartheid ah? lets see what a minister in South Africa said (he was a victim of the Apartheid in South Africa):

    [​IMG]

    Or maybe this evidance that Israel is not an Apartheid:

    [​IMG]


    Here is a video about Muslims (and Palestinians) celebrete the 9/11:

    [video=youtube;HRA0NKQ0k6E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRA0NKQ0k6E[/video]

    Did you was one of them?
     

    Attached Files:

  18. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    [video=youtube;w4SxXVMYSww]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w4SxXVMYSww[/video]
     
  19. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    In 11 years, Israel will have accepted the idea that Jesus was Elijah, returned as had been promised.

    In the meanwhile, all the Muslims will be in revolt and civil wars, while still trying to defeat Israel.
    But the Evangelical Church will aid them.

    In the end, good times will follow.

    They both did the same miracles, which was traditional supposed to identify Elijah when would come back.

    Both Elijah and Jesus raised the dead

    Both Elijah and Jesus were immortal.

    Both Elijah and Jesus disappeared from the foot of a mountain.

    Both Elijah and Jesus ascended into Heaven before witnesses.

    Both Elijah and Jesus troubled Israel.

    Both Elijah and Jesus were hunted down by the Jewish authorities.

    Both Elijah and Jesus hid in a cave/tomb.

    Both Elijah and Jesus pondered in the wilderness 40 days.

    Both Elijah and Jesus walked on the water.

    Both wrote letters to people on Earth after they had ascended.

    Both appointed a successor, Elisha by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ.

    Both were hunted by the Jewish authorities

    Both gave a successor the power to raise the dead

    Both gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other.

    Both asked that the this "cup" be taken from them.

    Both are said to have had miraculous births.

    Both multiplied the meal for many people they feed in the crowd

    Both destroyed the pagan worshippers and priests, one Baal, the other, the Pantheon of Rome.

    Both were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.
     
  20. J0NAH

    J0NAH Banned

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    [video=youtube;NLEE3ItAMCI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLEE3ItAMCI[/video]

    2,4,6,8 being 8@\/ is really great.
     
  21. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    ... but when Russia does it to Ukrane, its OK?
     
  22. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/30/w...yahu-looks-at-unilateral-moves.html?ref=world

    The hypothetical is now moving into the possible stage:


    Other, more moderate proposals would evacuate some or all of the estimated 100,000 settlers who live east of the barrier Israel erected in the West Bank, and make it clear that Israel’s future map should include the so-called blocs on the other side, as well as the areas of East Jerusalem populated by Jews.


    withdrawing to the Seperation Barrier would PROVE that Israel has no intention and no desire to continue the Occupation of the vast majority of the West Bank.

    I suggest they do it with post haste.
     

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