Why can't the market deliver healthcare at a low cost?

Sorry, but the current system certainly is because it's a hybrid socialist/capitalist system. Sorry, but us capitalists don't need the socialist side.

Your mountains of data showing single payer systems are superior don't take into account things like voluntarism. You know, like how you need to force people to pay for your free stuff? Yeah, that.

I understand you hate the idea that people can be free to choose to participate or not participate in your stupidity, but we are Americans, so take your marxist claptrap and go back to europe with that nonsense. We real Americans will muddle on by the best we can without you totalitarian ******bags.

 

You’re going to get it, regardless.

Yea, that’s how societies work. I know you have these really whacky libertarian ideas. But they don’t work in reality.

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You’re free to leave and buy your own island somewhere and live any way you wish. But, if you CHOOSE to stay here, you’ll be paying your taxes even for things you don’t like.

 

Odd, the party that was to repeal and replace, don't ever talk about it anymore.
I think the R party actually likes ACA.

 

When costs aren't published and in many cases the providers are limited sometimes to one, how is there ever a free market?

 

With a large segment of society now earning much less or unemployed

 

No

 

Funny, you can't discuss how this data is gathered or how the conclusions are drawn.

 

This is why we capitalists own guns.

Come and take them if you dare.

See, you guys always say you don't see how there will be a civil war, and then you say stupid stuff like how it's your way or the highway.

That's a ****** move. I've got to pay for your damn free stuff, or leave the country my forefathers settled. Or what... you'll kill me, right?

 

How will their incomes get paid with only a fraction of the revenue?
Magic ?

 

How will you determine that? I mean, someone on welfare could say they can't afford $20 a week to pay for healthcare cover, but then go and spend more than $20 a week on beer/cigarettes/fast food, etc.

 

They deserve luxuries and free healthcare

 

You of course know that is false. We’ve been over this in numerous threads.

 

Im quite sure I own more guns than you do. But, you wouldn’t do anything if someone tried to take them anyway.

No, there isn't going to be another civil war. You aren’t going to take up arms when we switch to a single payer system. And if you do, you’ll swiftly be put down by the local sheriffs department.

 

Huh?

 

He/she isn't wrong on this one, Belch. Nationalised healthcare is better in every way that counts. And by 'counts', I mean strictly medical necessity. If you expect to have a private bathroom while having your ingrown toenails sorted, you'll hate it. But what do you guys REALLY want? Better healthcare, or better feting?

 

My wife is a healthcare provider. This so and so is telling me that she's either going to work for him, or she can just take her doctor bag and leave the country.

It's not whether it's a better system, but rather a matter of slavery or freedom. Can my wife decide to just tell this prick to take his medical problems and get the hell out of her hospital? He says she just has to like it or lump it because he thinks he needs to live.

hint: that boyah doesn't need to live, and in fact... well... let's just say that the world might be a better place without.

These idiots complain about healthcare prices, but I get hammered on a daily basis by high prices. I mentioned my plumber already, and haven't even mentioned the business that gave me a 10k estimate to paint my house!!!!

None of them are complaining about market forces, but this idiot does. And I can guarantee you that he's not demanding that his charges can be changed so that every idiot that walks in off the street can afford it.

My wife is a doctoral candidate now, and stays up well past midnight every night studying. She works in the daytime and studies at night. We have very little time to just relax and enjoy what we have worked for already.

And these "people" think that she needs to just take whatever they can pay for, and well... even though my plumber can charge whatever the market can bear, she can't?

I despise these people!!!!!

 

In a democratic system both options are available when it comes to hospitals and surgeries - as they are in my country. You can pay through the nose and go private (as a patient), and you can elect to work in a private hospital (as a professional). Also, all GPs are private practitioners. They are not employed by the govt, they are simply paid by govt for their patients who elect to use the public coverage. They have full control over their own practice, just like all private practitioners.

 

Quality healthcare at a low cost will never happen. If the government guarantees healthcare for everyone the quality of it will decline. That is just how it works.

To have the free market work the government needs to be as uninvolved as possible. That is not happening now and probably will not.

 

"Why can't the market deliver healthcare at a low cost?"

Until congress stops allowing millions of illegals into the country giving them all free healthcare, a cap or reduction is put on drug prices, legislation is enacted to fight frivolous lawsuits forcing doctor's to pay a fortune for insurance which gets passed on to patients, don't expect prices to come down.

But don't think Socialism will be the answer...it'll be devastatingly worse and will completely destroy the country.

For one, many more millions from all over the world will flood our borders bringing every disease and sickness imagionable. Two, there will be no way to pay for any of it. Three, wait times to receive care will be well over a year. Four, elites will be given preferential treatment over the masses, and because of that, all families will see loved ones die due to not getting care in time.

It and other socialist programs will completely bankrupt the country.
As in Venezuela, everyone will take to the streets to revolt and protest their hunger but without guns (confiscated) or any other means to fight back, they'll just keep killing each other off, die of starvation, or leave to go elsewhere. Many of which will be crazed drug addicts desperate for a fix.

Therefore, to flee and get away, Americans will have to become illegal aliens flooding into Canada. Sound familiar?

 

Ahh yes, the ol' "compete with the government" thang. Yes, I do that in my own line of work.

Sorry, but I hate communists/socialists/totalitarians/whatevers because they use the violence of the government for their own ends.

If you've got one side of the system that everybody is forced to pay for regardless, and the other private side that tries to provide value for what is charged, and you still have to pay for the government, you will always be ****ed.

If you sell widgets, and the government sells widgets, and the government can dictate how much you have to pay for the widget, how much do you think you can charge for your widget?

That's not really what I hate about these people. They usually don't compete with the government, but they want to use the government to use the violence of the state to force people to work for what they can pay for. Hypocrites, the lot of them!!!!

My plumber isn't demanding that his prices be subject to the whim of the state, but you can bet he's demanding that other people be forced to do what he refuses to do.

 

Huh?

 

And numerous times you've been unable to discuss any details of the study, you know, data collection, inclusion criteria, methods, conclusions, you know, the stuff people who know what they're talking about talk about.

This time will be the same failure on your part

 

Yet it's worked remarkably well for decades. We have one of the finest healthcare systems in the world, and some of the best health outcomes. It also hasn't bankrupted us, nor has the sky fallen.

But the best bit (and you'll appreciate this, Belch) ... it removes one more excuse for failure. Coupled with free education and excellent welfare, and it's VERY easy to know who is genuine and who isn't. It allows us as individuals to focus personal resources on those who are genuine, and happily ignore the bleating from those who aren't.

 

Should we nationalize your profession, crush your income, to pass the savings to everyone else?

 

Please explain why our healthcare costs are TWICE as high as any other developed OECD country and their outcomes are in many cases superior. I'd say you're right: the problem is that "the price of all goods and services, including healthcare-related ones, are dictated by supply and demand" and also greed and manipulation in a "free market" environment.