why don't Democrats understand libertarians?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Troianii, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    Yes indeed. As for who won, I'd say both. Reality forced the idealists on the left to back on economic issues. Maybe some of their rethoric sounds very lefty, but remember that historically it's all to the right nowadays, and no one is talking about planned economies anymore. In the social sphere though.. it's the reverse, kind of.

    Well, it depends on how tolerant the one you speak with is of differing views..
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Liberals don't understand conservatives or libertarians.
     
  3. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    Other than the right to bear arms, what freedom have you ever seen conservatives champion?
     
  4. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    Freedom of speech, freedom to keep the fruits of your labour.
     
  5. geofree

    geofree Active Member

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    Small Government and capitalism only worked in this country while land was cheap and sparsely populated. Once all the good land was taken as private property and populations increased, the landowners started taking so much in rent that many of the landless would have been left to starve (while good land would set idle) if government hadn't stepped in to help them. Here is another take on Robinson Crusoe, by Henry George:

    I suggest you click on the link above and read the whole chapter and the one after it … you will be amazed at what you learn.

    Also, the founder of the libertarian party was a follower of Henry George, and favored that all taxes be paid by landowners.
     
    Woolley and (deleted member) like this.
  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    No one's talking about planned economies but the basic viewpoints are still popular and in institutions of higher learning, that's almost all that is being taught. Notice the worldwide notice given to Piketty's views. And of course, the Nanny statism that is infecting Europe and is becoming more popular in the US. These would have been anathema in the US prior the 1960's. The American Revolution is losing in America, so I don't see it really holding the winning hand. A century from now, when a boot will be stomping our faces forever, those enlightenment concepts will probably be looked upon as bizarre, in the same we look at the Shakers; a dead end.
     
  7. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    No, it worked well past that also, though it certainly did help to have an entire continent to expand into.

    I'll admit, having crusoe own the entire island probably wouldn't be for the best.
     
  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The Bill of Rights.

    I'm hard pressed to think of one the left hasn't pushed back against. Maybe you still oppose quartering soldiers in homes, but that's about it.
     
  9. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    I think this also speaks to the general open-mindedness of Republicans over their closed-minded and hypocritical Democrat counterparts. Notice how - despite being somewhat 50/50 - libertarianism is still generally considered to be on the right side of the spectrum. Why would that be if libertarians are socially liberal and fiscally conservative? Shouldn't they be right smack dab in the middle? Theoretically yes, but the truth is that for all of their endless blathering about tolerance, liberals view even the slightest inkling of dissent as someone being on the other side. So then believing that people should be able to keep what they earn completely negates any of your social liberal stances and makes you a "greedy right winger" to them. Meanwhile, Republicans might not agree with you on all of your social stances, but we still welcome you into our party. And as Ron Paul has shown, you can still be wildly popular here.
     
  10. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    Yes, the elite are always idealists, but luckily our view is based on reality, and they will ultimately be forced to change their positions if things get too worse when following their idealism. As happened in the USSR, so will happen in the west, if we ever go too far. Now, I'm going to do everything I can to prevent us ever comming that far though. But look at economics, there's free trade deasl everywhere, and that's certainly a victory for the right.
     
  11. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    I neither drink, nor discuss philosophy or politics with someone who cannot hold a semi civil conversation
     
  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I will definitely grant you that free trade has been a bright spot, but if there is no counter example, low can get very low. The Soviet Union went along for decades before it imploded even though the average person never had anything other than scarcity and hardship. What happens when there is no countervailing example that things can be better?
     
  13. thatkimjongilisanucklehed

    thatkimjongilisanucklehed New Member

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    Protecting the rich from the poor? What are you talking about? By eliminating corporatism? Is that how we're "protecting the rich from the poor?"
     
  14. thatkimjongilisanucklehed

    thatkimjongilisanucklehed New Member

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    The way Ron Paul was treated within the Republican Party was disgusting. I can assure you that I will never have anything to do with the Republican Party.
     
  15. geofree

    geofree Active Member

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    Under capitalism government grows out of necessity, otherwise the landowners would cause massive famines. Henry George documented how increasing wealth in society always caused poverty, because landowners keep taking more and more wealth from producers in the form of rent. Wherever landowners are the richest you will find the most poverty, and the most need for large government:
    And this is probably why libertarian minded economist Milton Friedman was also a fan of Henry George.

    "In my opinion the least bad tax is the property tax on the unimproved value of land, the Henry George argument of many, many years ago." — Milton Friedman, Nobel laureate in Economics (1976)
     
  16. Tram Law

    Tram Law Banned

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    Both parties are absolutely disgusting. I don't understand why people don't realize this and abdicate.
     
  17. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Old style Democrats would have understood whether or not they agreed with the libertarian philosophy but due to encroaching worship of nanny state existence, today's democrats tend to equate government control and intrusion into most aspects of life AS liberty and happiness. It's just the way in which the party has devolved . . . and I think it's too late to turn their thinking around.
     
  18. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    Sad as it might be, I think the rest of the world will have to fill that role if the west goes full lefty in the social sphere... ah, such a sad and patethic ending to such a great civilization, wouldn't you say? I'm optimistic though.. I'm seeing bit of a backlash against feminism, multiculturalism, and other marxist crap, atleast in europe.
     
  19. Troianii

    Troianii Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh yes a Swedish store selling Chinese products.
     
  20. thatkimjongilisanucklehed

    thatkimjongilisanucklehed New Member

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    Sounds like you know nothing about what "libertarians" believe regarding foreign policy.
     
  21. TCassa89

    TCassa89 Well-Known Member

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    libertarianism is not so foreign to economic experts, nobel prize winning economists Friedrich Hayek, Milton Friedman, Jame Buchanan, Gary Becker, Maurice Allais, and Eugene Fama are all self described libertarians
     
  22. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    I don't see how private ownership of land would necessarily lead to poverty given that they, like anyone else, operate within a competitive market. Although I'll admit that I'm not very well versed in this area.

    Btw, how did you learn of Henry George, and why is land rent so very interesting for you? As far as I've seen, I haven't seen you talk about anything else.
     
  23. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

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    A swedish store, owned by dutch, selling chinese made products, made by raw material from all over the world, shipped by.. let's say americans, to be sold to people around the world. Yes, that's the wonder of free markets.
     
  24. Goldwater

    Goldwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "Democrat Party" is a political epithet used in the United States for the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

    The term has been used in negative or hostile fashion by conservatives mod edit, flounder, 2 commentators and members of the Republican party platforms, partisan speeches and press releases since 1940.

    How stupid and childish is changing the name a political party named itself?

    You and me doing that....fine....but you don't see lefty pundits and politicans saying the "retarblican party" or something like that.

    But it's kind of nice to hear the term, because you know you're dealing with Rush fans, and conservative media vicitms

    - - - Updated - - -

    Money....that's why
     
  25. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Abdicate means to give up power. To cede the throne. That's what they're doing by voting partyline and not agitating to kick the (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)canoes out of both parties.

    What I really dislike is someone who refuses to vote but doesn't refuse to harp and complain. That and the people too scared to vote their conscience. If every person who had said "well gee I'd vote for paul but he can't win" he'd have gotten a significant portion of the vote.
     

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