Why Europe Is Irrational About Israel

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Taxcutter, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    39,876
    Likes Received:
    11,451
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I guess you've never heard of charters before.


    that is not "better", that is simply "fewer". do you recall Kristallknacht? do you recall the Nuremberg laws? there is a point where "better" in terms of quantity or quality becomes absolutely meaningless and the holocaust sure as hell is one of them.


    Bolding it doesn't change the fact that you were wrong in your assertion.



    I've read it.
    I am aware of the indifference and outright ignoring of the jews plight by many.
    I am also aware of the accusations that Zionist jews didn't do enough to help their fellow jews in Europe, but what would have been "enough'? Could they have done more? Probably? did they have their hands full in Palestine? Absolutely. Might also want to consider that "enough" in this case is a wholly and totally subjective measurement.

    Most Zionists and every adult Sabra is aware of the Petria sinking. If you know about it, then you must also know the bomb planted was only meant to disable the ship so the British couldn't deport the 1,000+ jews that were on it You must be aware it sank in Haifa harbor. Disengenous depiction.


    Just so you are aware, those alternative suggestions were because the Zionists of the late 19th and early 20th century held out little to NO hope that they could cut a deal with the Ottoman Empire to establish their homeland in the land where ALL of their biblical history (not to mention the Christian bible as well) took place.

    Many locations were discussed, but were quickly and completely rejected. I wasn't aware that discussions of alternatives and possibilities held decades before the Balfour declaration somehow validates the idiotic notion that Israel wasn't central to Zionist aspirations.


    Jews are a group of ethnicities that encompass varying degrees of religious belief while possessing a common subset of cultural traits derived from those religious beliefs. Jews primarily self identify either religiously or culturally, so yes, there can be atheist Jews.

    Funny how conversion to another religion is usually considered a rejection of the original religion.

    Messianic Jews qualify for aliyah if they can also claim matrilineal heritage as per Israeli law.
    Isn't it funny how sectarianism works. One group of co-religionists think another group of co-religionists aren't actually co-religionists because they have a distinctly different interpretation of religious scriptures and derivative beliefs.


    I think you will find that historians hold differing views on virtually every historic era, particularly when discussing motivations and resultant actions.

    I would venture to say there isn't a single historical era that does not have a wide variety of academic opinions some of which are diametrically opposed.

    OTOH, my experiences do not support your "always seems to be in the middle" observation. Many historical controversies are generated by a minority dissenting opinion/interpretation. Often its a single historian that sparks such debate. And let us also not forget that like any other human on the planet academics have been known to possess political and personal agendas. Denialists being but the most glaring example.
     
  2. krew09

    krew09 Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    18
    There are plenty of other reasons Israel,but more specific Jews are loathed. Listen to one tell you for herself. Europe isn't turning into a third world (*)(*)(*)(*) hole because the average citizen wants it to. Jews constantly push mass immigration,yet in Israel the hypocrites are the most racist haters of all.
    [video=youtube;rA7Ymki71fM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA7Ymki71fM[/video]

    There are other reasons as well,like the endless perversion pushed through the media,the theft of free speech...The Jew uses the subversive traitorous underhand communist tactics to undermine sovereignty. Patton had a few choice words about the so called "Jews" he encountered in Europe,Bolshevicks.
    [video=youtube;I7jC07xQcuc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7jC07xQcuc[/video]
     
  3. Mr. Swedish Guy

    Mr. Swedish Guy New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    11,688
    Likes Received:
    87
    Trophy Points:
    0
    What has Israel achieved that Europe has failed to achieve? Have I missed something, because I don't seem to remember Israel being the most successful civlization ever, unlike Europe.
     
  4. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Messages:
    10,700
    Likes Received:
    2,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Obviously I am aware of Kristallknacht and Nuremberg. But since this is clear obfuscation I will pay it no more attention.You may think that the term better is meaningless, to me it is clear that 200,000 dead is better than 500,000 dead.

    I was merely highlighting your deceit which continues.

    Who ever said it wasn't a totally subjective discussion? Apart from the claimed figures this is entirely subjective as is most debate on a subject such as this. More obfuscation.

    Then you are aware that it was claimed by the Zionist terrorists. at the time that the passengers had planted the bomb themselves. Only in the 1950s did the terrorist admit they had planted the bomb, but we only have the word of the terrorists who have lied already that they did not intend to sink the ship!. And you accuse me of disingenuous depiction! I think your dogma is showing through!

    In 1903 the Zionists seriously considered the offer of the British to establish a Jewish homeland in Uganda, finally rejecting the idea in 1905 hardly decades before 1917, that is not subjective measurement its disingenuous deception. But anyway it proves my point that the Zionists had alternatives to Palestine, and safer ones!


    Thank you for the explanation of who is a Jew, unfortunately it is so indecisive as to be almost meaningless. I would of thought that Atheism is also a rejection of the original religion. A much firmer rejection than conversion to Messianic Judaism. That you have to qualify the circumstances under which a Messianic Jew has the right of return just proves my point that not all Jews are allowed to return. Further any Messianic Jew that returns is given the status of non-Jew in Israel and of course in a racist state like Israel that is important.
     
  5. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,043
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The sum total of 'unguided missiles' lobbed from Gaza from different civilian locations, i.e. schools, hospitals, Mosques and so forth and so on was over three thousands this year alone... THREE THOUSANDS is a lot of missiles that no country in the world would accept without retaliatory options...
     
  6. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,043
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here is a sum up OLD LIST dated 2007...


    Israel, the 100th smallest country, with less than 1/1000th of the world's population, can lay claim to the following:

    1. The Middle East has been growing date palms for centuries. The average tree is about 18-20 feet tall and yields about 38 pounds of dates a year. Israeli trees are now yielding 400 pounds/year and are short enough to be harvested from the ground or a short ladder.

    2. The cell phone was developed in Israel by Israelis working in the Israeli branch of Motorola, which has its largest development center in Israel.

    3. Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel.

    4. The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the ‘Centrino’ processor were entirely designed, developed and produced in Israel. The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel.

    5. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel.

    6. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R&D facilities outside the US in Israel.

    7. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis.

    8. Israel has the fourth largest air force in the world (after the U.S, Russia and China). In addition to a large variety of other aircraft, Israel's air force has an aerial arsenal of over 250 F-16's. This is the largest fleet of F-16 aircraft outside of the U. S.

    9. According to industry officials, Israel designed the airline industry's most impenetrable flight security. U. S. officials now look to Israel for advice on how to handle airborne security threats.

    10. Israel's $200 billion economy is larger than all of its immediate neighbors combined.

    11. Israel has the highest percentage in the world of home computers per capita.

    12. Israel has the highest ratio of university degrees to the population in the world.

    13. Israel produces more scientific papers per capita than any other nation by a large margin - 109 per 10,000 people --as well as one of the highest per capita rates of patents filed.

    14. In proportion to its population, Israel has the largest number of start up companies in the world. In absolute terms, Israel has the largest number of startup companies than any other country in the world, except the U.S. (3,500 companies mostly in hi-tech).

    15. With more than 3,000 high-tech companies and startups, Israel has the highest concentration of hi-tech companies in the world -- apart from the Silicon Valley, U. S.

    16. Israel is ranked #2 in the world for venture capital funds right behind the U. S.

    17. Outside the United States and Canada, Israel has the largest number of NASDAQ listed companies.

    18. Israel has the highest average living standards in the Middle East. The per capita income in 2000 was over $17,500, exceeding that of the UK.

    19. On a per capita basis, Israel has the largest number of biotech startups.


    20. Twenty-four per cent of Israel's workforce holds university degrees, ranking third in the industrialized world, after the United States and Holland and 12 per cent hold advanced degrees.

    21. Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.

    22. In 1984 and 1991, Israel airlifted a total of 22,000 Ethiopian Jews at Risk in Ethiopia, to safety in Israel.

    23. When Golda Meir was elected Prime Minister of Israel in 1969, she became the world's second elected female leader in modern times.

    24. When the U. S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya was bombed in 1998, Israeli rescue teams were on the scene within a day -- and saved three victims from the rubble.

    25. Israel has the third highest rate of entrepreneurship -- and the highest rate among women and among people over 55 in the world.

    26. Relative to its population, Israel is the largest immigrant-absorbing nation on earth. Immigrants come in search of democracy, religious freedom, and economic opportunity.

    27. Israel was the first nation in the world to adopt the Kimberly process, an international standard that certifies diamonds as "conflict free".

    28. Israel has the world's second highest per capita of new books.

    29. Israel is the only country in the world that entered the 21st century with a net gain in its number of trees, made more remarkable because this was achieved in an area considered mainly desert.

    30. Israel has more museums per capita than any other country.

    31. Medicine... Israeli scientists developed the first fully computerized, no-radiation, diagnostic instrumentation for breast cancer.

    32. An Israeli company developed a computerized system for ensuring proper administration of medications, thus removing human error from medical treatment. Every year in U.S. hospitals 7,000 patients die from treatment mistakes.

    33. Israel's Givun Imaging developed the first ingestible video camera, so small it fits inside a pill. Used to view the small intestine from the inside, the camera helps doctors diagnose cancer and digestive disorders.

    34. Researchers in Israel developed a new device that directly helps the heart pump blood, an innovation with the potential to save lives among those with heart failure. The new device is synchronized with the heart's mechanical operations through a sophisticated system of sensors.

    35. Israel leads the world in the number of scientists and technicians in the workforce, with 145 per 10,000, as opposed to 85 in the U. S., over 70 in Japan, and less than 60 in Germany. With over 25% of its work force employed in technical professions. Israel places first in this category as well.

    36. A new acne treatment developed in Israel, the ClearLight device, produces a high-intensity, ultraviolet-light-free, narrow-band blue light that causes acne bacteria to self-destruct -- all without damaging surrounding skin or tissue.

    37. An Israeli company was the first to develop and install a large-scale solar-powered and fully functional electricity generating plant, in southern California's Mojave Desert.

    38. All the above while engaged in regular wars with an implacable enemy that seeks its destruction, and an economy continuously under strain by having to spend more per capita on its own protection than any other country on earth.

    39. Israel has the most verifiably longest recorded history of any nation, and became the seat of the first advanced alphabetical writings with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls (2300 years), and the Dan Tel Monument (2900 years). The Scrolls established Israel's scriptural writings as the world's most undistorted document - by period of time, volume of works and cross-reference historical verification, and shattered the false Arab charges that the Jewish temple was a Zionist myth.
    Israel Develops Solar-Powered Unmanned Aircraft
    Ezra HaLevi - Feb 22, 2007
    Arutz-7
    (IsraelNN.com) Israel’s defense industry continues to develop innovative technologies in the fields of unmanned surveillance and anti-missile protection.

    Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI) is unveiling several new technologies, eagerly sought and purchased by Western armies.
    I will try to get a more recent list of technical and medical innovations to 2014... a lot is achieved in 7 years in Israel.
     
  7. buddhaman

    buddhaman New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0

    Yes, the American right' fervent support of the biggest welfare mooch in the world is puzzling.
     
  8. unrealist42

    unrealist42 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    3,000
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Except for the people who were there when the Israelites first got to the promised land and are back there again today. 2 thousand years later the Israelites are still trying to kick them out.
    Some things never change.
     
  9. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,043
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0

    My friend your historical declamation is full of holes, worst than a piece of Swiss cheese.
    The Israelites conquered Canaan and ABSORBED/Intermarried with them... there are no Canaanite today but Israelites/Hebrews/Jews.

    Trying to connect the squatting Arabs from the surrounding Arab World to Israel does not make sense in history... Go open a book and research the situation.
     
  10. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,043
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We never stretched an open hand... but America found some potential realities to its own benefit...
    What Israel has contributed to the welfare of America was never even written about.
     
  11. buddhaman

    buddhaman New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I guess I shouldn't be puzzled. Out of the top 10 countries receiving foreign aid from the US, Israel is the only one that, based on per capita gdp, doesn't need it yet they get the biggest payout. This is exactly the kind of welfare the American right supports, big payouts to the wealthy.
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    73,645
    Likes Received:
    13,765
    Trophy Points:
    113
    A real shocker is to look at US foreign aid to Haiti compared to US foreign aid to Israel and Haiti's population is larger.
     
  13. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,043
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Baloney... Why don't you ask the Americans as to why Israel gets that aid preferential treatment... Today we really can do without it... We can also buy all our Armament from the free Market including Russia.

    Preferential aid treatment my left foot...Obama ordered a stop for required American spare parts... Israel decided to manufacture its own... Have a nice day.
     
  14. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    91,340
    Likes Received:
    13,903
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Israeli guilt trips over the Holocaust.

    Jewish-American donations to Congressional campaigns.

    that's why.
     
  15. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,043
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0


    THE STRATEGIC FUNCTIONS OF U.S. AID TO ISRAEL

    ~by Stephen Zunes

    To read the rest of Dr. Zunes' paper, please click on the following link

    http://www.mepc.org/zunes.htm

    (Dr. Zunes is an assistant professor in the Department of Politics at the University of San Francisco.)
    The United States aid relationship with Israel is unlike any other in the world, or indeed, like any in history. In sheer volume, the amount of aid is the most generous foreign-aid program ever between any two countries, totaling $77.726 billion through fiscal year 1996. No country, including South Vietnam, has ever received as much congressionally mandated aid as has Israel. Indeed, Israel receives more U.S. aid per capita annually than the total annual GNP per capita of several Arab states, including Egypt, Mauritania, Sudan, Yemen and Morocco. What is perhaps even more unusual is that Israel, like its benefactor, is an advanced, industrialized, technologically sophisticated country, as well as a major arms exporter.
    This paper examines the nature and extent of U.S. foreign aid to Israel, the strategic roots of this aid, how the relationship has been affected by the changing world order, the aid policy of the Clinton administration, its military component, its impact on Israel, the debate within both Israel and the United States, and the impact of aid on the Middle East peace process.
     
  16. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    12,540
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Good to know they are doing so well, guess they will not be needing 3 plus Billion a year from us for now on. Excellent news, we cannot afford to be their sugar daddy especially being that they do not seem to ever want to do anything we ask, sounds like having a frigid gold-digger as a girlfriend, a very one way relationship.
     
  17. buddhaman

    buddhaman New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2014
    Messages:
    2,320
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm sorry you're unhappy with the massive amounts of welfare you've been receiving. Feel free to send it back.
     
  18. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,043
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    A Super Power i.e. the US does not shower Countries with its largesse’s because of the liking or disliking of an individual State...

    It does what it does with the distinctly premeditated intent of taking advantage of a situation to its own benefit.
    In the case of Israel... this Country has been an asset to the US in the Middle East the past 66 years..., it is, has been and will be the ONLY SAFE non floating Aircraft Carrier at the disposal of the US... It has the ONLY SAFE PORTS and the ONLY SAFE ARMAMENTS and ORDINANCE Storage Facilities for the US in the Middle East... Israel has been the ears and the eyes... and the frequent tester of Russian and US Armament/Ordinance for the benefit of the US.... All kind of new innovations and Israeli inventions were surreptitiously extended to the U.S… And, who knows what else...?

    The US extends its ‘Aid Package’ to no less than 56 States in the World!

    Israel has now a GNP above 250 Billion Dollars and can surely do without the measly 3,1 Billion Dollars in Aid Package and all the pressures and <pressure tactics> that this entails... Provided naturally that the 2,6 Billions are ALSO taken away from Egypt and umpteen Millions away from Jordan and the PA Terrorists.

    Israel GDP
    Israel attained the highest Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth rate among Western (OECD) economies during 1995 today, averaging 6 percent during these years. Its per capita GDP (today some $16,800), places it 21st among 200 countries in the world. Although a small country (populations 8 million), Israel's international position in some areas of industrial and agricultural production capacity and exports is remarkable. Free trade agreements with Europe (the European Union and European Free Trade Association) and the United States facilitate Israel's $31.3 billion today reaching 50 billion of exports (goods and services, 1996 today) and its participation in international business enterprises, contributing to the country's accelerated growth since 1990.

    'An Economic Miracle'
    For the first 25 years, the economy reached a striking average growth rate in the GDP of about 10 percent annually, while at the same time absorbing several mass immigrations, building a modern economy, fighting four wars and maintaining security. This 'economic miracle' is ascribed largely to the use made of economic aid received over the years, enabling mass capital investment in means of production, and to the country's success in rapidly absorbing immigrants and involving them in productive settings. Between 1973 and 1979 the growth rate decreased (as in most industrialized countries, partly due to the oil crises of 1973/4 and 1979/80) to a yearly average of 3.8 percent and, in the 1980s, it dwindled to 3.1 percent. Since 1990 it has averaged 6 percent. In 1996 the total GDP was $92.3 billion ($16,785 per capita), a 25-fold real increase since 1950.

    1998 Statistic
    Elscint is based in Israel, a dynamic world center of high technology and science-based industries, with one of the fastest growing economies in the world. Israel's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is increasing at an average annual rate of 6.4%, compared to 0.5% for the U.S., 2.2% for Germany, and 2.8% for Japan. Gross Domestic Product per capita ranks with that of Hong Kong. Israel invests almost a fifth of its national output on education, just ahead of Singapore, Japan, France, Germany and the United States.
    The country's seven universities enjoy top ranking and Israelis with higher education account for approximately 25% of the population. Major firms like National Semiconductor, IBM, Intel, DEC, Motorola and Microsoft, have set up research here.


    High-Tech in the Promised Land
    Elscint started at the Technion, the first university established in modern Israel. Technion's more than 36,000 graduates provide the highly trained engineers and scientists for high-tech industry in Israel. Elscint regularly draws from this valuable resource.

    The <Aid Package>extended to Israel, Egypt, Jordan and the PA amounts to less than a Fraction of 1% of the GLOBAL AID PACKAGE.

    Please take the time to educate yourselves on the subject matter.
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Messages:
    91,340
    Likes Received:
    13,903
    Trophy Points:
    113
    would be wonderful if Israel would pay the USA back every dime
     
  20. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2009
    Messages:
    12,043
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree with you... a day will come maybe sooner than one think we will. To me it seems now quite obvious that we have paid back America by providing it with all the Israeli innovations... But maybe you are right we should pay back the balance...
     

Share This Page