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Why won't some people answer Yes or No questions?

Discussion in 'Member Casual Chat' started by Nightmare515, Jan 12, 2016.

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  1. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

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    Dependent upon a constant half-life, which is no more than a statistical average. U-238 is most often used to determine the age of the Earth because it's half-life is 4.5 billion years. It decays to an isotope of lead after that. How accurate is this half-life is a viable question when we factor a little more than 100 years of measuring a rate of decay estimated to be 4.5 billions years and assumes a virtually constant statistical average regardless of outside influences such as pressure and temperature. As though some internal clock dictates what amounts to be a random process on the quantum level yet is highly ordered and predictable at the macro level. The fact is, we don't know what causes the decay to be constant, only that it is. Why U-238 has a half-life of 4.5 billion years and another isotope only a few thousand years. Seems a bit dubious to use a method we don't fully understand yet we assume to be a Universal constant.
     
    Herkdriver, Jan 13, 2016
    #51
  2. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe so. Hard to really know.
     
    JakeJ, Jan 13, 2016
    #52
  3. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    The answer to your question is No.

    See there is the issue, people keep trying to decipher in their own heads what they think the underlying "crux" of my question is. The question is simple, I don't need people trying to decipher what they think I'm "getting at", I want people to answer direct questions that I ask.

    My question is very simple regardless of what religion, philosophy, teaching, history lesson, etc someone believes in. I also personally do not care WHERE somebody got their beliefs or where they got the number of 6000 years. I simply want to know if THEY PERSONALLY believe that is the correct age of the Earth.

    Do you believe that the Earth is 6000 years old? Yes or No? Don't try to read more into the question than what is directly presented. That is the main reason why people don't like to answer yes or no questions because they spend all of their time trying to figure out what they think I MEAN or what I'm "getting at" vs simply answering directly what I asked.
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 13, 2016
    #53
  4. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, how old is the earth if a person is using the big bang theory is nonsensical question as that does not theorize the earth just suddenly poofed out into being a planet. At what point did it become "a planet?"

    There also are some concepts ranging from versions of Zen/Hinduism to dream-reality concepts what some now call the Matrix theory that reality really is all just an illusion, in the sense that it is all just thoughts. Since we can only know of reality by our sensory perceptions - and machines we can build to enhance those - even our greatest understand of reality is limited to our own very limited perception abilities.

    Dreams can seem 100% real. Are they? What is the distinction? That is why I stated maybe you are insane, maybe all of reality really is just a dream world. What is the first moment of a dream? When you have the dream? But dreams usually pull somewhat from past experiences - so is that part of the first moment of a dream? How OLD is a dream you have, if its contents predate having the dream?
     
    JakeJ, Jan 13, 2016
    #54
  5. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    You did state in the OP that you were having a "discussion" that was, at least in part, about religion.

    If I or the person you asked that question (in the OP) answered with either a simple yes or no and left it at just that, would you have nothing further to discuss at that point as you have been satisfied with the answer you so desired?
     
    ChoppedLiver, Jan 13, 2016
    #55
  6. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    In that particular case yes. I simply used that question as an example seeing how I remembered it from the discussion I was having earlier in the day.

    It was just an example but the same thing happens all the time in regards to discussions. It's as if some people are afraid to answer a direct question for fear it will disclose their true feelings about something, feelings that they often want left secret.

    Another case in point. I've asked many people on this forum this exact question: "Do you believe that private American Citizens should be allowed to own AR style weapons, Yes or No?"

    The answer I receive to that Yes or No question is usually something along the lines of "that's up to the law to decide" or "The meaning of the Second Amendment is different now than it was back when it was written". Again, I didn't ask for any of that, I asked a simple yes or no question. I don't care about what the Second Amendment says in this case, I don't care about the laws or lawmakers. I care about what "you" think. So I ask people that question, DO YOU BELIEVE, not the law, not the forefathers, YOU.

    I only ask that question to those in favor of more gun regulations because obviously those who aren't in favor of more gun regulations will answer yes. I've received dozens of "yes" responses from the pro gun crowd who just wanted to give their 2 cents even though they know I wasn't talking to them. I have received a total of TWO flat out honest "No" responses from anti gun folks, both of whom were Europeans.

    I have received dozens of "replies" from anti gun folks in regards to my question but their replies usually consist of the stuff I mentioned earlier. Only TWO have ever flat out answered yes or no.

    That is the question I am asking, why won't people answer questions like that? This is an honest question here I am not trying to judge people or anything but when people purposefully beat around the bush and/or duck and dodge questions like that it makes me believe they are trying not to disclose their true feelings about a subject.

    Anybody can come up with a list of yes or no questions for me to answer in regards to my beliefs about politics or current events or anything like that and I will answer each and every one of them with a yes or no response, the way I ALWAYS do when asked a yes or no question. So why won't some other people do that?
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 13, 2016
    #56
  7. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    "It" was an example of what?
     
    ChoppedLiver, Jan 13, 2016
    #57
  8. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    An example of somebody beating around the bush and not answering with either "yes" or "no" to a yes or no question, twice in a row.
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 13, 2016
    #58
  9. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    I've been on your side in this thread, but while I would answer yes to that particular question (and no to the 6000 year old Earth question), I would feel an urge to hedge the answer in the gun question to make exceptions for 1) the mentally ill; 2) felons, especially violent felons; 3) people subject to restraining orders issued by family courts; and 4) fully automatic assault weapons (true machine guns).

    The "6000 year old Earth" question I would take to mean, "do you believe in what the carbon dating technology is telling us or what we can extrapolate from the Bible," and NOT "do you believe it's 6000 year old versus 5,762 years old."
     
    Le Chef, Jan 13, 2016
    #59
  10. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    If you put a gun to my head and forced me to answer that, I'd have to say "Yes." ("I used to beat her but now I don't.")

    It's a self-incriminating answer, I know, but "no" is an even worse answer ("I used to beat her and I STILL beat her.")
     
    Le Chef, Jan 13, 2016
    #60
  11. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    I would have said, "How should I know? I never saw Adam with his shirt off."
     
    Le Chef, Jan 13, 2016
    #61
  12. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Maybe....

    :roflol:

    Some times yes/no questions here are loaded. If you asked me how old I think the earth is I would say IDFK. Has nothing to do with religion. Science can be so all over the place, and since matter can neither be created nor destroyed according to them, I theoretically could conclude that the earth is exactly as old as the rest of the universe, just our particles may not have been as close together before as they are now :hippie:

    A good chunk of the time I see people ask yes/no questions on this site, they are false choices.

    Did this help--yes or no? :hiding:
     
    Deckel, Jan 13, 2016
    #62
  13. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    lol yeah it helped

    I agree with you that many yes or no questions are loaded around here. I also understand that the majority of yes or no questions are in fact leading to something else and the reason people refuse to answer them is because they aren't sure what that "something else" is and don't want to fall into a perceived trap or something.

    I also believe that many people are just flat out not honest with themselves and others. They may feel as though their TRUE beliefs or intentions will be too heavily criticized and/or misunderstood so they choose to conceal them instead of openly saying how they really feel.

    I guess that's where I am different. I'll tell you anything you want to know about me and my beliefs about whatever issues. I won't beat around the bush, I won't try to imply or anything like that. I'll tell you flat out exactly how I feel about something.

    Now I realize that some questions can be formed in such a way to make them seem more extreme. For example I remember some years ago when discussing Capital Punishment, something of which I am in favor. A member asked me a question something along the lines of: "So you are saying you believe that the US Government has the right to kill it's own citizens when it deems necessary?" My response? Yes.

    I know what that poster was trying to do, trying to form a loaded question to see how I'd respond to it or if I'd retract my statement so they could then turn around and call hypocrisy on my part or something like that.

    Same with another poster in a thread talking about the Castle Doctrine, another law of which I am in favor. That member said something like: "So you are saying that a person deserves to die for stealing a radio?" My response? Yes.

    That too was a loaded question because depending on the context of the argument it could mean different things. In that particular case we were talking about the Castle Doctrine and defending your home and property with deadly force. Now that question asked as a stand alone question would be completely different. Again I know exactly what that poster was trying to do and so do they, that was a bait question.

    People often think that by changing the wording of the question they will get a different answer out of me as if I'm too ashamed to admit how I actually feel. I see this all the time in the Abortion debate. People ask if I am in favor of abortion, I say yes. Then people ask something like: "So you are saying you believe someone has a right to KILL their child?" The answer is still yes. Rephrasing it to make it sound more gruesome isn't going to magically change my mind...

    A lot of the times they are formed as loaded and/or bait questions trying to lure somebody into saying something that can be taken completely out of context. So what stops people from wanting to answer questions honestly is the fact that many are trying to figure out what trap they are about to fall into by answering yes or no.
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 13, 2016
    #63
  14. Le Chef

    Le Chef Banned at members request Donor

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    I doubt that any creationist would split hairs or hedge like this. The question is clearly intended to inquire whether a person believes that God created the world as the Bible says, or if the scientific community s correct in saying that it's much older. If I thought it was 5,763 and was asked the question, I'd say "yes, approximately." But not a simple "no," which would imply that I think the bible is a complete fable.
     
    Le Chef, Jan 13, 2016
    #64
  15. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your name as it appears on your card, credit card #, Expiration date and security code on the back are what exactly? :love:

    In all fairness to your G/F, that issue is one of the trolliest issues in religion. It was on the internet and going around when I was a wee one and just never goes away. Her defensiveness is perfectly understandable. If you asked me that question, you would get another IDFK. I saw a program recently in which they discovered something odd in the genes of somebody. I think it was DNA to a different line of humans IIRC, and they traced it back to some village in Africa in which some of the villagers carry whatever this surprising genetic discovery was. I do recall this was the only place known to have it. New things are being discovered all the time. New fossil remains are periodically found that expand the traceable history of our ancestors. I leave open the possibility that we may have very well had something resembling humanoids overlapping into the dinosaur die off. I no longer think that we know as much as we think we do given the trend of science in the last several years. I just leave the door to all those possibilities open.
     
    Deckel, Jan 13, 2016
    #65
  16. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Or, if I were to answer that question, "I have no opinion." What's the problem?

    But if the question is directed at me, I don't necessarily care what you want, or think you need.
     
    yguy, Jan 13, 2016
    #66
  17. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what I thought. And that's probably a good reason why, when you said, "I rarely ever talk politics or current events and stuff in real life because I don't like arguing with people", that you should avoid such discussions like the plague in the future if you are actually interested in an honest discussion/debate on the issue you stated in the OP.

    You played the debate on terms that were good enough for you. You played it like a game that, like many games, is structured so that even though a clear winner gets established, the game continues on with the rest of the participants continuing on vying for second, third, and forth place (Like Parcheesi).

    Yet, you actually didn't even participate in the "game" (debate) as your yes or no question offered NOTHING to the discussion that was actually relevant according to you. That was your "trump card" that, for you, allowed you your own personal victory no matter if the answer was an either or an or as you presented it.

    A "no" answer allows you (in your own mind) to say that the person asked does not believe that the religious teachings is something they can back-up to your satisfaction.

    The answer you got still gives you a victory as you can claim that they can't answer the question as you posed it to your own satisfaction. Both the yes answer and the answer you claimed to have got allows you (again, in your own mind) to pat yourself on the back for your victory in the discussion and sit back and watch all the other placers vie for position. That's the "out" that you ultimately desire in this discussion yet still get your ulterior "need" to win something that you don't have the facts, study, and enough knowledge to be a part of in the first place.

    A "yes" answer is probably scarier to you as it wouldn't give you the "victory" you desire and you'd have to continue the game. Then you'd have to back-up your position with more discussion/debate.

    Bottom line is that you can't "control" everything in your life's discussions just by asking loaded questions that, even according to you, have no bearing on the discussion at hand.

    Did it ever occur to you that they sometimes don't answer with a straight yes or no because it's a loaded question that the person who is asking is looking to give them a prescribed response no matter which way (yes or no) their response is in an attempt to control the course of discussion in a manner that they want it to go that favors the person asking even though it is an unfair tactic in an honest debate?
     
    ChoppedLiver, Jan 13, 2016
    #67
  18. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    Damn you read fast LOL, I deleted half the post talking about the situation with my ex gf because I didn't want people to think I was knocking on religion since that would be the second scenario in which I talked about asking religious folks specific questions.

    I deleted that almost immediately after I posted it LOL

    But when I ask religious folks questions like that I am really not purposefully trying to harass them or troll them or anything. I really am just curious. I studied religion and as an Atheist I like to see just how much people believe in what they believe in. So to me if, according to Christianity, God created the Earth and everything on it in 6 days and created Adam and Eve on the 6th day and someone believes that Dinosaurs actually existed then that leads me to believe they believe humans and Dinosaurs were on the Earth at the same time. Either that or Dinosaurs never existed. It's one or the other in that scenario... So instead of me trying to ASSUME I know they believe that I simply ask them. Not ask them to be a smartass but just ask them because I'm curious.

    I found that it's often easier to just ask people questions rather than trying to decipher what I THINK they mean and/or believe. As a Mod I spend a great deal of time reading other peoples posts, usually for the wrong reasons unfortunately lol. But I get a general idea of what many members believe in and whatnot. So rather than sitting here with a decent bio of people trying to decipher how I THINK they probably feel about something I'll simply ask them if I am curious.

    I like to spend a lot of time in the gun forum for example. I have a pretty good idea of how most of the regular posters in there feel on most gun control issues. But sometimes I am not quite sure. So sometimes I'll just flat out ask somebody: "Do you personally believe that American citizens should be allowed to own firearms?" I'm not trolling the person or trying to bait them into something or anything I just can't figure out their stance on the issue by reading their various posts on the subject so instead of just sitting around pondering I simply flat out ask them.

    I do that pretty often on here and in real life during the rare times when I actually discuss politics and things in the real world with people. I don't really like listening to somebody tell me all about various things they believe in, when I talk to people I usually come up with a list of things that I am personally curious about so I specifically ask them about it. Maybe thats me being a bit self centered I don't know.

    Perhaps that's why when it comes to debate I love it when people ask me questions, specific questions. I liked it way back in college in one of my Political Science classes when we had a mock debate. It was the standard template of come up with like 20 specific questions you want to ask the other person and they have 30 seconds to answer each one. I enjoy that, it cuts through the crap, it doesn't give people time to beat around the bush. And my Professor was BRUTAL, that might be where I got that from. She didn't play games, she monitored it all and if you didn't specifically answer the question that was asked then you were stopped immediately and told to answer it and only it. Go off on a tangent again and you were kicked out of the room.

    Thats the type of debate I like and I think that's probably where I got a lot of my thinking from. Answer my question, and only my question, and you don't have enough time to beat around the bush and if you do then you're kicked out. It pretty much forced people to be open and honest. I enjoyed it.
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 13, 2016
    #68
  19. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds to me he may have shaken your faith in atheism is why you left.

    Religion aside, It is because like many posted, yes or no questions are loaded, and a simple yes or no breeds more question lining some don't feel like dealing with.
    Case in point: Your GF ask you are you cheating on me? Simple yes or no correct?
    Hmm..some girls consider cheating as, googling porn, looking at another chick, flirting, having a hot coworker flirt with you etc.
    Some guys consider there girlfriends cheating if they are having emotional affairs, sharing nude pics of there body on suchansuch Mysugurdaddy site, going to the club alone and sharing there number, etc.
    Not really a yes or no is it?
     
    Vernan89188, Jan 13, 2016
    #69
  20. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually I quote fast and then read slow. Sometimes I have noticed that if a person edits it will pick up their edit and sometimes not. I do that because my computer sometimes has a mind of its own and scrolls all over the place so I don't have to chase down the post I want to respond to again (usually because of my dog hitting the mouse cord or shaking the table).

    Yes/No questions are conversation killers if that is what you are going for. Perhaps try making a declarative statement of what you believe and start the conversation that way.

    Now it is parable time at PF. When you apply for zoning changes in my city, the surrounding property owners within so many hundred yards get a notice and to give input by mail to advise the zoning board. My parents got such a notice and said, "Hell it is there property. They can do whatever they want with it as far as we are concerned." Said reply card got a giant stain across it so my mom was too embarrassed to send it in. The applicant then asked me why my mom didn't respond or if she had an issue with it, and that same day his wife called my mom. I had told him the smear story so he had them send her another one. Something in the TC with the wife ticked my mom off, and she decided that they were just being too pushy so she voted against the zoning change out of spite even though she was still fine with the zoning change. I suspect that is what happens with a lot of religious people when people start nitpicking the Bible as proof God doesn't exist. They take it personal and will not really tell you what they think. They will tell you whatever they think will irritate you the most. They do not see such things people nitpicking the Bible about as relevant to their faith in God. As with the zoning card, it is just pure spite.
     
    Deckel, Jan 13, 2016
    #70
  21. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    "I have no opinion" would be perfectly fine if you actually had no opinion. It would not be fine if you actually had an opinion but were unwilling to disclose it for whatever reason.

    Like I said maybe I'm personally just different. I'm an open book I don't give a damn I'll answer anything somebody asks me regardless of what I personally think their agenda might be for asking me that. Being as open as I am about everything to virtually anybody who asks isn't always a good thing though. The girlfriend didn't really appreciate my extreme open honestly sometimes which tended to get me in trouble quite often lol. My father used to always tell me many years ago as a teen "boy you really need to learn to shut up sometimes, you don't have to honestly answer everything people ask you" lol....

    But as the people at work always say, if you want to honestly know how you're doing in your current role then go ask Nightmare, he will certainly tell you, he has no filter...at all. Which leads me to being to go to guy whenever the bosses want to get an inside look at how us subordinates think they are running the place...

    Maybe since that's how my own brain operates I have a difficult time understand why other people don't operate like that.
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 13, 2016
    #71
  22. ChoppedLiver

    ChoppedLiver Well-Known Member

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    You know this, I see.

    Yet, you can't possibly fathom that your OP question was one of the "loaded" ones.

    Quite telling.
     
    ChoppedLiver, Jan 13, 2016
    #72
  23. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    See thats the thing, you just basically psychoanalyzed me based on what you THINK you know about me. That is a problem that people have, they talk to you then try to form opinions about how they THINK you are. That's why I don't like doing that and why I ask questions. I don't want to have a long discussion and try to figure out based on that what I think you might believe in regards to certain subjects. I'll just flat out ask you what you believe about certain subjects.

    I don't judge people, that's a very hard concept to fathom because in this society we live in damn near EVERYBODY judges EVERYBODY else. I live by the very simple concept of live and let live, if you aren't bothering me then I don't care. I don't think religious folks are misguided or stupid or believe myself smarter than they are. I'm the first one defending them when Atheists go after them for their beliefs. I don't believe in the Bible but I don't look down upon those who do. I don't see myself as anything better or worse than them, we are all equal, we just have different beliefs.

    Me asking the guy if he believed the Earth was 6000 years old wasn't a trump card, it wasn't my golden nail in the coffin for me to silently laugh at him in my head and call him stupid or make fun of him in my mind. I was literally honestly just curious. I personally believe that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, and I was curious if he believed that or if he believed it was 6000 years old.

    Thats why a few posts ago I said I view that question literally no different than asking somebody if they believe the Earth is 4.6 billion years old. It's not a knock on them or trying to set them up with a loaded question it was an actual honest question. Some people believe the Earth is billions of years old, some believe its thousands of years old, I was just curious what he happened to think. To me that question is no different than asking what is your favorite color. Mine is black, so I'm curious what yours is.

    I was engaged to a very religious Christian woman, I am an Atheist. I didn't care that she believed in things I didn't believe in. I actually deleted that post so as to not turn this into a religious discussion but for the sake of making a point I asked her a question one time while sitting on the couch. "Do you believe that humans and Dinosaurs were on the Earth during the same time period?" She answered Yes, I said Alright.

    I wasn't in my head saying wow I'm engaged to somebody who seriously believes that hahaha...No, I didn't care nor did I even form an opinion about it. She brought up the discussion asking if I thought Dinosaurs were as old as the documentary said they were that we were watching and I said Yes. She said she believes they were created when the Earth was created. So I asked the question that I asked. The end. Then after she went on a tangent on me for BELIEVING I was screwing with her for my simple "alright" response we simply changed the channel and started watching basketball.

    I guess I understand why people are so defensive about it. They rightfully assume that most people who ask questions like that ARE screwing with them or trying to. But me personally I'm not. I am a very curious person who just likes to know what people think about things. I ask a lot of questions, I'm not psychoanalyzing people when I ask questions I am simply asking questions because I'm curious about it. I like computers, if I meet another computer nerd I'll ask them something like "Hey do you believe Nvidia is better than ATI when it comes to graphics cards?" I'm not asking that so see if he says ATI is better so I can make fun of him in my head for thinking the cheaper alternative is a better product. I'm simply asking because I'm curious what he might think as a fellow computer nerd since I always choose Nvidia.

    Dunno...maybe my brain is wired weird or something. I have no issues with anybody regardless of their beliefs no matter how different they are than my own. I don't judge people and I rarely even form an opinion on somebody. I simply just talk to people, no agenda, no underlying cause, I just talk.
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 13, 2016
    #73
  24. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    It would only be a loaded question if I wanted it to be one. Meaning I was trying to bait the guy or purposefully make him feel stupid or something.

    The basis on whether or not a question is loaded depends on the person asking it and what their agenda or end goal is. He probably THOUGHT it was a loaded question because a lot of people do tend to harass Christians about their beliefs for one reason or another or try to make them feel stupid for what they believe in. I however was not. I was simply talking to the guy because he started talking to me.

    He started it...he asked me "Do you believe the Earth is 4.6 billion years old?" I said Yes, then I asked him "Do you believe the Earth is 6000 years old?" He replied with all that other stuff.

    How come his question to me wasn't a loaded question but my question to him was?
     
    Nightmare515, Jan 13, 2016
    #74
  25. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good question you pose there.

    The problem for some people with a yes or no question is that a yes or no question is sort of ruthless. A simple yes or no question can sort of blow up a person's whole argument. For example:

    A liberal person declares: "I believe we should repeal the 2nd Amendment."

    So I ask, "If your daughter was going to be attacked by a rapist/killer tonight, would you want her to have a gun if it saved her life? Yes or no?"

    A hawk declares: "We should put a ground force into Syria and Iraq."

    So I ask, "If you could know in advance that your son would die in that invasion, would you still be for it? Yes or no?"

    The fiscal hawk: "I demand a balanced federal budget."

    So I ask, "Are you willing to pay for our spending? Yes or no?"



    And so pride gets in the way of a straight answer. I think that's it.

    When people ignore or deflect the question, you've won the argument, but you have learned that you don't have a debate partner.
     
    Seth Bullock, Jan 13, 2016
    #75
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