World Health Organisation supports reopening of Chinese wet markets.

Discussion in 'Asia' started by chris155au, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    No, I didn't say that it was a Chinese WET MARKET flu, I said that it was a Chinese flu,
    which you rightly point out isn't accurate as Hong Kong wasn't part of China. You see, I can admit my mistakes. Can you admit yours?

    There's nothing normal about a wet market producing viruses. Only China has this particular ability. However, you're right - there are wet markets world wide which DON'T produce viruses.

    I didn't say that viruses don't happen outside China! I said that PANDEMICS don't happen more than once outside China! Get it right!

    Provide just ONE SINGLE source which backs up your assertion, if you are even REMOTELY able to do so. Of course, you won't be! :roflol:

    Give me a break. It was WAR TIME! They covered it up to maintain morale. This is very different to China who knew the dangers after SARS but didn't change a THING!

    Is there some sort of evidence which suggests a deadly risk with cats? I note that we don't eat cats in the West for a start - that's China's thing. Now a cat ban in China? Now there's an idea!

    Yes, infections happen outside of China, but which pandemic has cattle caused? I must have missed that one!

    All totally irrelevant to two SARS pandemics coming from China within 18 years.

    Why would the Netherlands require as strict virus preventing regulations as China? China needs the world's most STRICT virus preventing regulations! Yet they have barely any!

    Yes, that's what's called an opinion. I didn't claim that it was a fact! However, I think that's it pretty reasonable to give a country a second chance, don't you?

    Fact remains, no country has caused two SARS pandemics within 18 years. No country has China's shocking virus history.

    The GOP downplayed it, or the Trump administration downplayed it which includes Dr Fauci and Dr Birks who don't belong to the Republican party?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  2. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Please see a shrink, something is haunting you, its called fear of communism....
    Reg.
     
  3. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You have a long history on this topic of tying the wet market to China and China causing viruses to spread. And you're nitpicking all over the place now. And no, you did not say it was a "Chinese flu". There is also nothing ethnic about a flu. Quit this suddenly racist nonsense. You're just dead wrong to accuse China over the Hong Kong flu. Period. The UK is.

    We both know MERS and the Spanish flu have nothing to do with China.
    So you go prove MERS and the Spanish flu did not come from a wet market.

    Ah. Moving goalpost from. From they don't happen outside China, to they don't happen more than ones in the same country outside China. I again point out that China has a bigger population. I also add... the swine flu started in the US. And there is little doubt that the Spanish flu is also from the US. So you know...

    3 studies point at the US
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#United_States
    Do note... absolute certainty is impossible... because THE US KEPT IT SECRET!

    No breaks are given on something caused in the US, killing 500 MILLION people.

    According to the CDC the cat flu has jumped to a human in New York.
    It also says it's concerned since such viruses mutating can cause a pandemic.
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/other/flu-in-cats/h7n2-cat-faq.html

    Never stopped people owning cats.

    Swine flu comes from pigs.
    Cattle in the US: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/24/10/18-0589_article

    You claimed "that doesn't mean it didn't originate in China! Same applies to bird flu! It ORIGINATED in China!"... and I proved they originate outside China as well.

    Because a new virus can originate from anywhere. I proved that.

    An opinion not based on anything, and refusing to take into account a lot more people live in China.

    That's just because you're refusing to take into account a lot more people live in China.

    Up to you to prove Fauci and Birks are GOP politicians.
     
  4. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    It's really very simple. Earlier on in the thread, I listed all of the various viruses which have originated in China. One of the viruses that I listed was the Hong Kong Virus, but I was wrong to list it. You then accused me of calling it a "Chinese wet market flu" which is simply false.

    In my last post, I admitted my mistake. Did you miss that?

    Yes, but why is this relevant exactly? I didn't say that they DO have to do with China!

    Prove that they DID come from a wet market, or that they DID NOT come from a wet market? Either way, I didn't say anything about those viruses coming from a wet market!

    I haven't ONCE stated that viruses don't happen outside China! It would be ridiculous to say that. I've simply stated that more have happened in China than anywhere in the world.

    You mean Mexico don't you? :roflol:

    THREE studies? Only ONE study from 2018 is mentioned in that section of the article! And directly below the US section,
    is the China section, which has MULTIPLE studies suggesting that it originated there! Try again! :roflol:

    Yes, in hindsight they shouldn't have covered it up, given the damage caused. However, if only a thousand were killed, it may have been worth it.

    Okay, so as of yet, it hasn't caused a pandemic, and the CDC is keeping an eye on it. So how is this the same as SARS-CoV breaking out in 2002 and then SARS-CoV-2 breaking out now?

    Again, the CDC is keeping an eye on it.

    You've said that swine flu originated in America - so are you saying that it originated outside of America too? I don't think you understand the definition of the word 'originate.' :roflol:

    Yes, so then why doesn't China have strict regulations to prevent viruses?

    No, I've taken the population into account, which is why I've said that China needs the world's most STRICT virus preventing regulations, BECAUSE of their population! Yet they have barely any!

    ARE GOP politicians, or ARE NOT GOP politicians? Note, that I said that they are NOT.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  5. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Is communism not to be feared?
     
  6. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    It is relevant because you're going anal about China, while it happens all over the world. No country has ever been held responsible. You only are hearing the GOP ranting that nonsense now. We all know why. The GOP did a terrible job, downplayed the threat of the virus all over the place, to now blame everybody else. Elections are coming.

    You can not rule out the did not come from a wet market. You're free to prove that.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic_in_Mexico
    First reported in the US on 2 of april. It suggested it started at Smithfield foods... an American company.

    I spot that they pointed at the US in 2003, 2004 and 2018
    Do note: the US government kept it secret.

    There is little doubt it started in the US. They kept it secret. And as a consequence we got a staggering 500 million people dead. China has been exceptionally open about this. So it's absolutely retarded for the US and American people to blame China. Oh hang on... Let me sink to your level... The US caused 500 million deaths on a disease they deliberately kept secret to the world:roflol:

    How is this different from the swine flu outbreak that went all over the US... while the CDC "kept an eye" on it. Point is: it doesn't stop people from owning cats and risking to be patient zero of a pandemic. Just like people risk getting sick at a wet market.

    Why? There are no strict regulations when owning cats.

    That's just applying a double standard for people who live in a bigger country. Do people in NYC and your random small town in Kansas have different rules about health? I think not.

    Note.. you asked me if they were not. Up to you to answer and prove it yourself.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  7. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    It's rather paranoid to have red scare. That entire domino effect that ones was preached is a total hoax.
     
  8. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What if in the future, there was a communist nominee for President? Would it be "rather paranoid to have red scare?"
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  9. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    No, wet market pandemics do NOT happen all over the world. Viruses happen all over the world.

    No country has ever been worthy of blame. Are you saying that China were completely unaware of the danger of their wet market practices after 2002 SARS?

    Do you actually think that the only people in the world being critical of China is the GOP? That's ridiculous!

    I can understand how you have been mislead by that. Check out the below though, and tell me where the first discovery was. Sorry to have to do this to you.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic_timeline

    Yeah, one of their Mexican factories! Seriously, give up while you still can! :roflol:

    By two HISTORIANS! Did you also spot that a "leading EXPERT on the 1918 flu" pointed at China in 1993?

    And yet your only sources are the above two historians! :roflol:

    FACT CHECK: 500 million INFECTED.

    They arrested a doctor who informed them of the virus! :roflol:

    This IS what you actually believe though.

    The CDC has no control over what the Mexicans do.

    When cats are known to be high risk of a pandemic, then let me know! We KNEW that Chinese wet markets were high risk of a pandemic! Now why is that? Oh, SARS in 2002! :roflol:

    You're the one who has said that viruses are more likely in bigger countries!

    Fauci and Birks are NOT part of the GOP!

    The GOP downplayed it, or the Trump administration downplayed it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    If that's what the people vote for, than that's what the people vote for.
    Obviously....
     
  11. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You say that, without knowing if MERS came from a wet markt or not.
    You're creating a hoax. Period.

    Ah.. they ol' are you saying <<insert hoax>>.

    Ah.. moving goalpost from being held responsible to just being critical. And no.. I have indeed not heard that other countries want to hold China responsible. Just retarded that the GOP tries to make China responsible, since no country has been in the past, and the US has a terrible ugly track record themselves. The GOP is just desperate to pass the buck, because they failed so hard to combat this virus. Total joke of a response.

    Not seeing any disputes there that the fist case was found in the US, according to my source.

    My source states the company tested in Mexico and it came back negative.
    You claiming it came from the Mexican factories is therefor a hoax.:roflol:

    still 3 reports. You disputed it. You're wrong and moved the goalpost.

    And you got nothing.:roflol:

    It's so transparent that we also know that one. Hence: China has been exceptional open about this. The US and Americans have no leg to stand on compared how they have behaved in the past.

    I got my sources. You got nothing.

    first case was reported in the US. Get over it. Point stands the US was the source of 2 pandemics, with around 330 million people vs well over a billion in China. The US has a crappy track record, besides they totally covered one up.

    Point stands that the CDC knows it's a risk.
    Your personal opinion is totally irrelevant.

    And?

    You brought it up for no reason. Got it.

    You don't know who has downplayed?
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  12. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    So it sounds like you agree that communism is something to fear. Good.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  13. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    you can't quote me on that. You're making a hoax again.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  14. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Well you didn't say that it would be paranoid to have red scare if there was a communist President.
     
  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    you can't quote me on that. You're making a hoax again.
     
  16. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I said that you DIDN'T say that it would be paranoid to have red scare if there was a communist President.
     
  17. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    No, MERS did NOT come from a wet market, but I'm guessing that you knew that.

    Hoax? No, China were completely aware of the danger of their wet market practices after 2002 SARS. Simple.

    Well I've never said that the GOP or anyone else have said that China is responsible.

    Trump hasn't said that China is responsible. Some GOP members sure, but that's not an official party position. So you're wrong about that.

    You may want to take a look at March 17! :roflol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic_timeline

    I didn't say that it came from a Mexican Smithfield factory! However, YOU suggested that it came from "Smithfield foods." You said, "first reported in the US on 2 of april. It suggested it started at Smithfield foods... an American company." Then I replied by saying that the factory which was SUSPECTED was a Mexican factory of an American company! Seriously, give up while you still can! :roflol:

    No, TWO reports pointing to US. The 2018 study "found evidence against the disease originating from Kansas." The study also found evidence "that the virus likely had a North American origin, though it was not conclusive." And 'North America' isn't just the US, but I'm sure that you knew that! Seriously, give up while you still can! :roflol:

    Meanwhile, you have also failed to address that a "leading EXPERT on the 1918 flu" pointed at China in 1993! By the way, I'm not saying that the 1918 flu started in China! However, you are saying that it started in the US! Why not just admit that we simply DO NOT KNOW?

    The reason that we know about the arrest of the doctor is NOT because the Chinese government told the world that they arrested a doctor!

    The US didn't cause the deaths.

    Again, when cats are known to be high risk of a pandemic, then let me know!

    Well if you think that viruses are more likely in bigger countries, then how do you suggest that countries like China control viruses? Should they just hope for the best?

    Yes I do - the Trump administration downplayed it, VOICED by Trump, but backed up by members of the coronavirus task force such as Fauci and Birks. This is the simple reality.
     
  18. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    source it

    Everybody was aware. They are all over the world. Nothing new.
    The CDC is also aware that having cats form a risk. Also nothing new.
    My point stands. It's a risk we're willing to take. You're holding double standards towards wet markets.

    This comes from your post "Do you actually think that the only people in the world being critical of China is the GOP? That's ridiculous!"... not about Trump. Sorry. And I have yet to see you prove other nations are holding China responsible. This is nothing but a right wing hoax to blame somebody else for them causing a total disaster. We all know they did not take this serious. Donald himself blasted it around.

    You're just nitpicking. And it's petty.

    It was debunked. Read the source. Them Chinese people were in other places before where nobody was infected, ruling out the Chinese to be the source.

    Name a country who produces a daily list who they arrest.

    They kept their deadly virus disease a secret. Of course this caused a lot of deaths.

    They should do what other countries do. And you should take into account it just happens more often in bigger countries. Seems you're unable to grasp that when 1.5 billion people throw a dice, that they end up throwing a 6 a lot more often than the people living in Vatican City.

    A) I sourced to you that Fauci wanted social distancing in February, and it was ignored.
    B) Donald is still responsible for calling out the wrong things. He is at the helm.
     
  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_respiratory_syndrome

    https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-...t-respiratory-syndrome-coronavirus-(mers-cov)

    =NOT FROM A WET MARKET! :ROFLOL:

    Exactly. Which is why the rest of the world has CONTROL over their wet markets! Not China!

    Cats = no pandemics. Chinese wet markets = TWO pandemics! :roflol:

    Well Trump represents the GOP in a pretty big way, so I was just making sure that you weren't saying that Trump was blaming China.

    When did I say that other nations are holding China responsible? Quote me. I can quote you, but can you quote me? I doubt it! :roflol:

    FINALLY you've stopped trying to prove that the Spanish flu started in the US! I thought that you'd never stop! You were getting pretty damn desperate there! It's okay to be wrong!

    Yes, I read it - I don't think it started in China, which is why in my last post I said: "By the way, I'm NOT saying that the 1918 flu started in China!" Did you miss that? You keep missing things! Try to keep up!

    Exactly, so then why the hell are you using the fact that we know about the arrest of the doctor as evidence that China have been transparent?

    So the US kept the Spanish Flu a secret, but China made ABSOLUTELY NO attempt to keep their virus secret? Yeah right! :roflol:

    Yeah, like strict wet market regulations! Which they don't do!

    I HAVE taken that into account! That's why I'm saying that they should do something!
     
  20. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    First source says "It is still unclear how the virus is transmitted from camels to humans.".
    So they don't know. So you can't rule out wet markets.

    You did not prove that.

    I already noted that the CDC is aware that cats can cause a pandemic.
    Has not prevented anybody from taking risks.

    He is actively looking in ways to blame China. Donald is accusing China of lying. We know Donald has lied all over the place about the dangers of the virus, while he knew it's deadly. The GOP is just scapegoating around. They preformed absolutely terrible in this outbreak with their ways to down talking around. Donald proved to the world he's a total joke about his idea's to injecting disinfection fluids in the body. An absolute total idiot.

    Hence my point stands that this whole blaming China, is a GOP theme for the sake of elections, due to their absolute abysmal performance to counter covid19. Having mass rallies, calling the virus the new hoax.


    Huh? I always have said you can't prove it. Because the US is holding it secret. While the experts point out that it did start in the US. The US has no ground to complain about the lack of transparantie of China.

    Your opinion doesn't matter. The source itself debunks is. It simply did not start in China. You're just distracting away from the US, how they kept it totally secret, and that people are pointing at the US as the only logical place where it could be coming from.

    Because we know it happened. Duh.
    China notified the existence of a probably new virus to the world in December through the WHO. And so it indeed made no attempt to make it a secret. That the US kept a lid on it, is a fact. As if you did not know.

    You go source that other countries have strict regulations about wet markets.

    You're just demanding double standards to a 1/4 of the world population. Pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Well it's not even SUSPECTED as coming from wet markets! And that's more than we can say for China!

    No confirmed pandemic which has started in a wet market other than China! And you know that!

    From your source:
    "Also, there is potential for a pandemic (a global outbreak of disease) to occur when a new animal virus gains the ability to infect humans and also has the ability to spread efficiently from person to person."

    They don't even know yet if a virus from a cat has "the ability to infect humans and also has the ability to spread efficiently from person to person."

    Do you think that there are ANY lessons that China can learn from this pandemic?

    Can't prove what? Are you admitting that it can't be proven that it started in the US?

    Two historians! And there is one "LEADING EXPERT" who has found evidence that it started in China!

    Correct - just as it simply did not start in the US!

    What does that have to do with China being transparent?

    Except they arrested a doctor. Why the hell do you suppose they did that?

    Which is what in your mind?
     
  22. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    And where does that say that in your source?

    Ah. Moving goalposts.

    It says rather straightforwards that the CDC acknowledged there is a risk of a pandemic when having cats. So it's hypocritical for people to (let them) own cats and accept the risk for a pandemic, but not accept the risk to cause a pandemic at a wet market.

    Wet markets are to be found all over the world. It's going to hypocritical to demand that China may not have them. And besides that. China is a sovereign nation. No UN can make them not have wet markets. We all know wet markets for a risk. We all know China has them. Never stopped anybody to allow travel to and from China.

    It's for the US to prove they are innocent since they kept it so secret.
    Duh

    That leading expert got debunked. The Chinese have been accused that they infected people in a certain place. It's a fact that those Chinese people were in other places before they arrived there, where nobody got infected. Hence it's ruled out that they were the source. That is according to an American professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology and supported by the Chinese government who saw no increase in the amount of deaths in China to claim the rather deadly disease started there. While your "leading expert" only got as far as that it was "likely" to come from China. In other words, it was an idea. An idea that got debunked.

    Again. All fingers point at the US. The US kept it secret. Hence it's up to the US to prove they are innocent.

    I think it was for causing a panic. China still reported it to the world the very next day that the doctor reported it. That was back in december. You got no point.

    To have their wet markets. The world either agrees nobody should have them, or just have to accept that they can have them. And it seems you're absolutely keen to apply a double standard here.
     
  23. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    The source doesn't mention wet markets.

    How so? You referred to wet markets in other countries, which is not good for your argument! Why? Well, there's no confirmed pandemic which has started in a wet market other than China! And you know that! :roflol:

    And yet you aren't saying that there's the same risk posed by cats as the risk with wet markets! You KNOW that there's a clear distinction! :roflol:

    Wanting China to not have them would be going too far. Anyway, you didn't answer the question: do you think that there are ANY lessons that China can learn from this pandemic?

    Correct. Is anyone saying that the UN CAN make them do things?

    Yes, a risk for a pandemic, as demonstrated now TWICE!

    You've got it the wrong way around! It's actually innocent until proven guilty.

    Same as the historians regarding the US. They didn't say that it was PROOF that it started in the US! Seriously, give up while you still can!

    Whose fingers exactly? Just the two useless historians? :roflol:

    What "panic" are you saying the doctor caused? It's not as if he told CNN!
     
  24. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Hence your claim of "No, MERS did NOT come from a wet market".... is a hoax, until you prove your point.
    How so? You claimed Mers did not come from a wet market. And it's a hoax, until you prove your point.


    I'm not saying that. The CDC says there is a risk. And who are you to downplay that risk?

    They seemed to have dealt with that virus rather successfully. Maybe they will tweak around it. Dunno.

    You are again not taking into account that 1/4 of the world lives there.

    Not in this case when it's a fact that they covered it up.

    They proved it did not come from China.

    And that professor I mentioned previously.

    Look it up yourself if you want to make a point. Point remains, China still reported it to the world the very next day. Your claim it's not transparent with that by dragging in that doctor, is just a hoax.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2020
  25. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What do camels have to do with wet markets?

    A HOAX? You sound like Donald Trump! :roflol:

    There's no confirmed pandemic which has started in a wet market other than China! And you know that!

    Only if the virus has the ability to infect humans and also has the ability to spread efficiently from person to person.

    What do you mean "tweak around it?"

    So all wet markets around the world have the EXACT same risk and should therefore be treated in the EXACT same way?

    That's not actually a legal standard. It's innocent until proven guilty no matter what!

    The two historians proved that it came from China? No, they just SUGGESTED that it came from the US. You're totally confused! :roflol:

    This professor found evidence against it coming from China, not evidence FOR it coming from the US! Not to mention, that the exact same guy DEBUNKED the USELESS historians who said that it came from Kansas! You're totally confused! :roflol:You can see for yourself, from your OWN original source which I'm now using to utterly DESTROY you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#United_States

    Okay, so when you said that the doctor was causing a panic, it wasn't actually based on anything! :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
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