I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

Mr. Dutta is factually correct. If you don't immediately and slavishly submit to the oft-times arbitrary authority of someone with a badge and a gun, you are very likely to be on the receiving end of some form of violence, including deadly force.

However, Mr. Dutta is ethically in the wrong. There is no categorical moral or legal imperative for anyone to obey whatever commands come out of a police officer's mouth, nor does verbal combativeness justify the use of violence by police, which makes his attempts to shift blame away from police and onto civilians indicative of a very disturbing and regressive mindset within law enforcement.

Instead of admonishing civilians for being argumentative or skeptical of an LEO's authority, he should be telling police that civilians have every right to voice their disapproval and to vociferously assert their rights in interactions with police.

Mr. Dutta's attitude is why civilians and police are increasingly alienated from one another, and if things don't change, we are going to see more, not less, resistance towards police.

 

And you will see more people getting shot as they are met with more resistance.

 

the police have a lot to lose in this fascist game



Police: St. Louis officers kill suspect with knife

Aug 19, 2014 3:10 PM CDT

ST. LOUIS (AP) - St. Louis police say officers shot and killed a 23-year-old man who was wielding a knife and refused to drop it.

Police Chief Sam Dotson said officers responded to Tuesday to a store where the man was reported to have stolen energy drinks and a pastry.

Dotson says the man was acting erratically and told responding officers to "shoot me now, kill me now." He says officers opened fire when the man began approaching them with the knife.

KMOV reports a large crowd gathered at the scene, not far from Ferguson, which has seen days of protests over the fatal shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown by a police officer.

No officers were injured in the incident Tuesday.

http://www.wjtv.com/story/26318987/police-st-louis-officers-kill-suspect-with-knife

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/michael-brown-shooting-st-louis-police-shoot-knife-wielding-suspect-near-ferguson-1.2740293

 

Then don't be surprised when the people start shooting back.

 

I have law enforcement in the family, including an assistant DA in NYC I'm so proud of my niece, and the fact is the law officer is backed by the authority of the city, state and/or Federal government depending on their agency and if you challenge them your likely not going to win and you pose a threat you will get force enough to control you. I found the best thing to do is be polite, respect the badge and then if there is an issue file a report with the agency in question explaining why you didn't like what happened and be respectful. All officers will give their badge numbers if your respectful for reference.

I never had issues with them when I was Busking I had my county permit out, was happy to hand over my ID and if asked to move I did and would file a report later if I think they didn't follow the law noting they were professional at all times and a fine police officer just the law does favor me and noted the ordinances and gave a copy of my county permit for Solicitation noting Street Performing. The two times this happened the officer was informed of the law, sent me an apology in writing and I made sure it was not a red mark on their files that it was an honest issue but they were both very professional and I felt more than comfortable with my treatment.

 

I think his ethics speak from a relatively naive position. In essence is telling everyone "I am the police, you will do as I say", but with the intent that everything a police officer says or does is on the up and up...and in reality, that is not always the case.

Just like in the military, just because an officer gives enlisted an order, doesn't mean the enlisted just salute smartly and carry out the orders. It is incumbent on the enlisted to ensure that the order is legit. Ignorance is no excuse.

In that same vein, it behooves everyone to know and understand exactly what authority a police officer has and the law. Chances are that the police know it better and I'd say in MOST cases the police are in the right, but there are dirty cops, there are racist cops and there are those who do abuse their authority.

On the other hand, having spent a few years in LE as an MP, patrolling on post (not exactly the same as being a civilian cop, but close) it was an eye opener to find out just how much people are willing to tell the law to get bent.

In a total SWAG, I'd say in most cases people who get taken down probably deserved what they got, but there are always blatant abuses by police.

 

The problem with this editorial is that not every cop follows the law. A good example is people recording officers. They are legally allowed to do so, yet every day I see a new video showing a cop stopping/arresting/harassing people who tape them in their duties.

We live in a day and age where the majority of people know their rights, and when an Officer asks them to do something that the person knows is against the law, why then should that person comply?

Yes people should not abuse officers, as they have a super tough job, but a lot of cops have brought this attitude on the rest of them by abusing their authority, and then being protected by the brass for such abuse. I bet if Cops started going to jail for breaking the laws they are supposed to enforce, people might have a lot more faith in the good ones.

 

Toddler critically burned during SWAT raid

 

Hmmmm Mr Dutta and his friends nowadays are wannabe infantry. They drive tanks and personnel carriers. They carry assault rifles, wear military camoflage and helmets - yet they want respect and acceptance....

What is wrong with that picture?

 

unfortunately many cops are the victims of abuse from a young age and see this position of false power as a means to redeem their manhood. cops can be a spectrum of society, they are no more moral or righteous than the average man, they can be perverts, criminals, honest, noble etc etc, they just want a job and being a cop appeals to them for all above reasons.

its like the catholicism, that fraternity is littered with pedo's and its in a place you least expect it, thats what predators do!

 

Most cops do have a certain thug mentality all of their own. I often can not tell the difference between them and the thugs they "Protect" us from.

The other mentality I don't like is the hero worship OR the all cops are bad,

there hardly seems to be any reasonable middle ground.

I really hate these kinds of mentalities. It really doesn't have to be that way.

 

do you want a war, do you want a war?

 

It's a mined field to explore from a social perspective, imagine from a political perspective [who will lose votes?].

Now, in Italy, despite what you can hear from Italian anarchists, police is well kind and during riots and turmoils statistics are in favor of protesters. In facts happens that policemen have killed in similar events [even during the protests after a soccer match!! And this tells a lot about Italians ...].

Policemen here [in general order forces] can use the force only in organized way [charging in group, using water cannons ...], the single policeman / policewoman is not allowed to use force. Google about "TAV" and protests. Despite all the political declarations about that railway being strategic and that some protesters would haven't stopped the works ... that railway is still well far from being finished.

But,

on the other side, policemen know that there will be no firearms [concealed or not]. The protesters usually get ready for the battle against the police wearing American Football helmets, corporal armor, masks [for police gasses] and carrying chains and clubs.

So that the police organizes itself like a Roman testudo to face the opponents and it becomes a tremendous melee. A great show for TV news [usually TV journalist receives punches from policemen and from protesters as well!].

 

what really burns is the way cops are shooting dogs; warrantless cops came to the wrong address, shot their dog

and after being told to get lost, invaded their home; the dog lived and the family paid $1000 for surgery, she was home

recuperating, then cops came and took her, saying she's vicious; every 98 seconds, a dog is shot by law enforcement


Family pet shot in the head by plainclothes cops searching at wrong address

ERIE COUNTY, NY — (EXCLUSIVE) — A family was traumatized when gun-wielding police officers walked onto their quiet property and shot their dog in the head while looking for a man who did not live there.

Megan Shimburski, 25, was spending a quiet afternoon with her children at her parents’ countryside East Concord residence on July 25, 2014. It was a normal day, she said, which involved watching her 5-year-old daughter play behind the house with their dog, as her infant son lied in a playpen inside the house.

Ms. Shimburski’s parents, John Shimburski and Martha Spaulding, were not at home when the day turned to chaos.

At around 2:00 p.m., Ms. Shimburski recalled that she ducked inside the house for a moment to use the restroom. She became alerted to something occurring when the family’s two dogs began barking; one was inside and one was outside the house.

Ms. Shimburski said that she looked out the window and saw two vehicles parked outside — a car and an SUV — along with unidentified men, one of whom had a gun drawn.

Panicked, she rushed outside toward danger to attend to her daughter, Makenna, who was accompanied by “Lady,” a 2-year-old Brindle Pit Bull.

The Shimburski family's "big baby," called Lady.The Shimburski family’s “big baby,” called Lady. “I heard 2 shots fired, and Lady yelp, and my daughter scream,” Ms. Shimburski told Police State USA.

The armed stranger had just shot the family’s beloved pet in the head, with Makenna standing “20 feet behind [the dog] in the exact same direction.”

“He then proceeded to continue walking up the hill with his gun raised, and I screamed at him not to shoot his gun again,” she added.

Ms. Shimburski says that there was no clear indication of who the intruders were; there were no markings on the vehicles and the three men were not in uniforms. She described them as dressed in “business attire” — definitely not uniforms.

“I stated that I was going to call the police, and that’s when they said, ‘We are the Erie County Police,’” Ms. Shimburski recalled.

The men began then began to request to enter her parents’ home. Ms. Shimburski declined, and tended to her children and dogs. Lady was bleeding profusely. Makenna was cowering nearby crying, “The man shot Lady. He shot my dog.”

As Ms. Shimburski took her daughter inside, she discovered that two of the self-described “officers” had already entered her parents’ home, after she had explicitly told them to stay out.

“They were yelling at me to tell my daughter it was OK,” she said.

The young mom secured her daughter in a bedroom along with the second dog that had been indoors. Her parents quickly arrived after being notified about what had happened.

The reason for the intrusion was finally made known when they announced that they were looking for the father of Ms. Shimburski’s son. The family told the officers that the man they were seeking had never lived there, didn’t receive mail at the address, and that they should have tried looking for him at his own home.

The police had not brought a warrant, and said they only wanted to ask the man some questions. They continued to request a search of the home.

“I didn’t mean to GRAZE her.”

Meanwhile Lady, described as a “67-pound big baby,” was hiding under the deck, covered in blood. A bullet had traveled through the tissue on her head, neck, and shoulder. A large, open gash allowed blood to pour down her face into her eyes and nose. It was a shocking sight for the family.

“The officer stated that he had just ‘grazed’ her, and that she would be fine,” Ms. Shimburski recalled. “I looked at him and said, ‘You did not graze her!!’ His words were, ‘I didn’t mean to GRAZE her.’”

The shooter — [later identified as Erie County Sheriff's Detective Greg McCarthy] — claimed he shot in self-defense because the dog was “charging and barking.” Ms. Shimburski says that he exaggerated the dog’s actions and the distance he was standing from her when he fired. No one was bitten or in danger, she said, and the dog was coming from the back to the front of the house to investigate the strange visitors.

“My child could have been shot,” Ms. Shimburski said to Police State USA. “She now has the idea that these people who were there to protect people are bad people,” and added that she may need counseling. “I stated that not all cops are bad but at this point I don’t think she’s going to trust them.”

Lady ultimately survived, after an emergency surgery, 60 metal stitches, and $1,200.00 in veterinarian bills.

“The police did not leave names or numbers, nor did they show any remorse,” Ms. Shimburski said. In fact, she had been left with no paperwork; no business card; no record whatsoever of what had happened.

Regardless, the family attempted to get past the incident. Young Makenna dealt with confused feelings about the shooting and Lady slowly recovered from her injuries at home. Ms. Shimburski did not even have a confirmed phone number to call regarding the incident. Until 11 days later…

A “Dangerous Animal”

The family found that their troubles were not yet over on August 5th, when police returned for another visit. This time, they brought paperwork: a document that read “Order to Seize Dog.”

The Erie County Sheriff’s Office, unsatisfied that Lady had survived the first encounter, had sought out another legal method of killing her. Describing Lady as “dangerous dog — pit bull,” the document authorized deputies to “seize the said dog harbored by the said Megan Shimburski” and to “hold, care for, or dispose of” Lady, pursuant to New York’s Agriculture and Markets Law, Article 7, Section 123.

The deputy and an animal control officer took Lady away to the animal warden, leaving her with an uncertain fate. Pending a court date on August 12th, Lady may be euthanized if found to be a “dangerous dog.”

The document was signed by Gene R. Heintz, Justice of the Town of Sardina. It also confirms that the men at the property on July 25th were Erie County Sheriff’s Office detectives Graham, Noecher, and McCarthy. The man who shot Lady was Detective Greg McCarthy.

“I am outraged and disgusted by their behavior,” Ms. Shimburski said in an interview. “They put my child’s life in danger because of their negligence. Lady did not deserve this in any way because she is not in any way a dangerous or aggressive dog.”


http://www.policestateusa.com/2014/justice-for-lady-erie-county-ny/

 

the street isn't the place to confront a cop that should be done in a court of law if you are wrongfully arrested detained rights violated or any other wrong doing the street isn't the place to settle the issue it is done in a court of law

for instants if you feel you was wrongfully pulled over and given a citation then isn't the time to challenge the cop it is why you have the right to go to trail to do so

 

Something we can agree on dujac, something we can agree on.

This shoot every dog in sight crap has become much too prevalent. It's nothing but a sign of bad intent.

 

I agree. If you don't want to get hurt, then you should probably act like a meek peasant in the presence of a noble. But what does that say about American society, that civilians are liable to get hurt for simply verbalizing their disapproval or asserting their rights in the presence of a police officer?

 

I suggest you look up the term "failure to comply"

Hell I'll do it for you

http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/failure-to-comply/

Failure to comply in general means a failure, refusal, or neglect to obey an official order. Failure to comply may be a criminal (punishable by incarceration) or civil offense (punishable by fine), depending on the type of order that was disobeyed. For example, failing to comply with a police order to pull your car off the road and fleeing is a generally a criminal offense.

 

Civilians don't have the right to assault a police officer and deliver an orbital blowout fracture to his eye socket.

 

How do you know they are even cops? Romney is to put on a uniform and chase chicks around for laughs.

 

I suggest you post something which has actual relevance to my position.

 

you said there was no law against it..........I showed you there was............carry on

 

That sounds a little like " i am the game, i am the player, it's all about control no way you can take me "....

 

it's a law that's used and abused by cops

the first amendment gives people the right to photograph in public, with few exceptions

but just look at all the fascist cops that think people can't photograph public events, police action and such

every professional street and journalism shooter knows that if a cop says stop, if you don't convince him you have a right

then you could end up in jail overnight, it's pathetic and draconian

 

I never said or implied otherwise. My commentary is not about the incident in Ferguson, but about the mentality of the police in general.