The Power of Money

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by AmericanNationalist, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    I want to take a break from the transition of President-Elect Donald Trump, to start highlighting issues in the country. Particularly, I want to make a case of how there can be better days regardless of WHO is in office(yes, even if Obama won a third term or if Hitler reincarnated as an American with anti-semitic views lol.) The power of money. In my opinion as a student of business, and coming from a family of entrepreneurial women(both my mother and my sister), I have a very intimate knowledge base of money and I think that it is singlehandedly the most powerful tool in a person's disposal.

    They say "money is at the root of all evil", and it's not. Most people would say it's greed. But really, it's how you use money(or anything really) that determines the outcome. Businesses that pay good wages to their workers, and businesses that provide products that people either enjoy, consume or use on a daily basis for commercial good. Those businesses are good for society. Furthermore, people looking to get into business to provide these social goods, are some of the most pure people you can meet. They're local people like you and me. Bakeries were started by people who noticed the popularity of donuts and wanted to share more donuts with more people.

    And on a grander scale, Facebook, Twitter, Instragram was created to connect more people through the power of the internet. As this very forum suggests. But I won't lie about the dark side of business. Crony Capitalism, sending jobs overseas and therefore dislocating former American workers. The whole immigration issue came at its head, because of cheap labor(Chris Matthews said it now, it's not just me.) So there's certainly reform in the business community that we have to take. Reform that as a House of Rep
    candidate, I'd love to take on.

    But that's not the point of this post. The point is to get people to positively look at the power of money as a tool for proper utilization. I mean, call it whatever system you want but regardless of what you call it: You need toilet paper to clean up, food to eat, etc. And all of this requires money.

    Would we like a 21st century utopian society in which anyone can have a good or decent life whether they have money or not? That would be ideal, except for the fact that money rewards productivity. If people were to have access to resources, indiscriminately then those resources would dry out pretty quickly. And I'm not of the population reduction opinion. No, I think we have to increase productivity to match up with population demands.

    And nothing increases productivity more than the necessity of acquiring money. Taking a very quick and brief trip down memory lane, we once traded sheep, livestocks and other valuables as a means of currency. Now, we can trade currency itself while people can still keep their vital possessions, provided they have the currency to afford them.

    So I view money as a transformative, positive tool when used for good purposes. People who donate to charities, start up educational institutions and use money for good can be seen as the ones who truly make America work. Those who work within those institutions are also vitally important. The only true evil, are those who abuse the system.

    I want to reform the system so we can flush out the evil in it, while promoting the good. And one of the ways I wanted to do this, is my idea of creating a slush fund for ordinary workers to have access to.(Or privatizing Social Security has the same effect). One of the biggest things holding back the middle and lower classes from reaching the pinnacles of wealth, is the limit of wealth earned within a portion of allotted time. In thus creating a fund where their wealth can be stored, they can have present wealth(income) and future wealth(Net income.)

    With the present income to sustain their livelihoods, and yet the future income to ensure their future they can be rest assured. Unlike
    retirement, which is only available at old age. This will be at their disposal. Thus solves one of the components of enriching yourself: How to generate wealth when you have the necessity of today. Let's bring today and tomorrow as one.

    And I want to create a real, living wage. Tying it to the median GDP. By tying the living wage to the Median GDP, we give ourselves real concrete ground and a fixed cost. The money will be funded by Congress, and it'll be a mandatory spending. But all types of mandatory spending should be fixed. Fixed costs are the best costs, because they don't fluctuate.

    And in making it a federal program, jobs won't have to bare the burden of the costs. Meanwhile, you should still be able to have increased wages and mobility through the job market via your capabilities. That and the fact that we can finally get rid of the minimum wage now that we have a much stronger mechanism in place.

    We'll have state of the art job training facilities, also hosted by the Local States. One of a business's qualms is with having to train people. Well, no longer. We'll create the facilities and we'll hire experts to train these prospective employees. All a business has to do, is come and evaluate these job prospects and hire away. Thus, literally guaranteeing you employment.

    And then I want to have State Accountants(very similarly to State defense attorney's/lawyer's). Imagine if you got the same exact advice as a Donald Trump and with that Financial Intelligence were able to invest your money? Start your own business or be a real estate broker? Right now, we have an 80/20 ratio of entrepreneurs/workers. I'd make it a more balanced 60/40, doubling the amount of entrepreneurs.

    Not only creating new leaders, but new openings for those people unemployed. My plans are to radically and drastically shake up the economy to generate what I believe can be a 25% GDP increase. 4%? That's small stuff. When you figure only 1/4th of the country is producing, we can and will do more.

    So focus on a bright future, one with a lot of dollar bills and coin ;).
     
  2. YouLie

    YouLie Well-Known Member

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    Have you read Atlas Shrugged?
     
  3. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Money doesnt always win out. Hillary spent about TWICE as much as Trump, and she lost.
     
  4. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For the most part- I agree with you. I've started 6 businesses and still run two- a 45 year history of business ownership.I've also had the opportunity to talk with a number of highly successful entrepreneurs over the years- I know a lot about what makes it work. So while I agree, I would like to point out a few things that didn't get mentioned.

    Business management is a special skill, and most people don't recognize that. If you are a highly skilled mechanic and want to open an auto service business- you are in no way prepared to survive, and your chances of success are probably less than 50%. While shortage of money takes down a lot of new businesses- it's the lack of ability to see needs, manage money and raise money that is responsible. Those are management skills, and they require a substantially different mindset than a fine tradesman might have. It is equally true that even being given the money to soundly fund a new enterprise, the management ability to use it right and preserve the value is critical- and lacking it only means that it will take longer for the business to fail. A great businessman can make a success of almost any field, even if he knows little about it. It doesn't work the other way around, because the management skill is the most critical part.

    Not all people can become entrepreneurs- in fact, I think the percentage that can doit successfully is quite small. That is because some of what you must have can't be learned, it's either in you or it's not. My father used to describe the lack of this as having "no fire in the belly". This is the compelling drive- the thing that allows some people to see their work as a challenge, to find value in accomplishment, to work 60-80 hours a week and love doing it. Trump for example- sleeps 3-4 hours a night, and all his waking time is focused on what he want to accomplish. In my case I have achieved a lot by developing new ideas, in a number of fields including product prototypes. There is always a pile of notebooks beside my bed, because I wake up in the middle of the night and need to write down a great idea or answer to a problem that just lit up in my mind. Happens every night, because my mind never puts these ideas down. Drives my wife nuts.

    While a lot of people want to be successful, and they dream of the money or benefits they think business ownership would offer- most of those same people could not maintain the pace or spirit needed to do this. It's not a defect, it's just not how they are wired.

    Keep thinking on it- I encourage all to make the most of their opportunities in life. Money is of course a big part of making life better, but I think the key to getting it to work for you is in learning good money management, good judgement and self discipline. Despite the principles of those things being information they have seen all their lives, most still can't do them very well. Still, if you are a dedicated person in a normal field of work, and you have good financial discipline- you can rise, improve your income and do very well.
     
  5. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    No, at best a rough outline and as a "Statist", you can imagine that Ayn Rand's philosophy and mine do not compute whatsoever.
     
  6. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    the peasants should have the divine rights of kings by enjoying what they do, not by how much money they can make.

    when America was founded the people enjoyed farming, so they were given land grants to become kings by the founding fathers.

    today they need to be given capital to become capitalists, and that can be done in many ways. anyone can become an entrepreneur if they are allowed too, the others can choose not to be their own boss if they want too.
     
  7. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, who are you going to steal the wealth from in order to have politicians create your dream society?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Statists believe that the government creates wealth by printing money and spending it. It's tooth fairy economics. The problem for the authoritarian is that Rand had a moral code that she didn't seek to impose on anyone else. Each person is free to follow their own conscious to whatever limit they desire. The OP wants to shove his morals down your throat and force you to pay for it. Like all who worship the state, they deify it and give it moral authority to reward or punish people for their sins.
     
  8. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    the original government from the founding fathers gave the peasants land grants to create wealth, without government there is no privilege to create wealth by risking wealth, while being under leveraged, like how President Trump created his wealth.

    the problem is when government redistributes wealth from the poor to the rich to create wealth, it has to redistribute wealth from the rich to the poor to create wealth, since the poor have the incentive to build wealth they don't already have.
     
  9. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    Ideally no one. But taxes exist, and the Federal Bank prints money. I'm using the system that's in place, to better people's lives. If that makes me a thief, then I'm a proud thief. If another and better way exists for this economic transformation please tell me, I'm willing to listen.
     
  10. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Neither of these things creates wealth. It destroys it. But I get that you believe that two wrongs makes a right and that the agent of both wrongs is righteous. How you manage that double-think is beyond me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Money isn't wealth.

    So the end justifies the means so long as it's your ends? Or is it that if it makes you feel good ("pride") then the might is right? Anyway, your idea for economic transformation is based on no actual logic that I can discern, and all implementations of it have proven to be disastrous at best. But it makes you feel good to imagine, so it could not possibly fail!
     
  11. tsuke

    tsuke Well-Known Member

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    atlas shrugged taught me how to think though. You should give it a try.
     
  12. EggKiller

    EggKiller Well-Known Member

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    “So you think that money is the root of all evil? [...] Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?”

    A brief excerpt from what is called Franciscos money speech (Atlas Shrugged). It eventually goes on to conclude without money the only other possible means for men to deal with men is by brute force, the muzzle of a gun.

    Anyone who wishes to change and influence the world owes the world at least reading this book first. You may not agree with Rands philosophy but you need to know of its existence. I consider it the natural state of man before being influenced by criminal activity.

    It's a tough read. Rand was a better philosopher than novelist and she penned shrugged while angry at the literary intelligentsia. Hence the book seems to pound it's ideas home with a hammer.

    There's a youtube movie. "Ayn Rand and the prophecies of Atlas Shrugged" that may help whet the appetite.
     
  13. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    how do the poor create wealth without capital to put at risk?

    they work for minimum wage and not living wages, without government redistributing wealth of those who have capital to put at risk while being under leveraged, there is no way for the poor to have the same privilege.

    the rich are no longer peasants, they are kings, and the founding fathers wanted the peasants to have the divine rights of kings.
     
  14. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By accumulating it rather than spending it. You seem to think that they will create successful businesses from government handouts. When has that happened? If you want a successful model, look to Kiva which gives no-interest loans to aspiring entrepreneurs, but doesn't just treat them as handouts with stolen money.

    How much are they paying in taxes? Their payroll taxes will give you a good indication of that. So steal from them, and then give some back to them? That's a great way to create wealth /s.

    So what you want is a massive government can that can crown people in the hopes that it will crown the little people. What government have you seen where that actually works? Power favors the accumulation of more power, not decentralization as you would have it.
     
  15. jrr777

    jrr777 Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing more powerful than love.
     
  16. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    the rules of capitalism in America are rigged, and without lawful government force to make it ethical for everyone, only the rich can and are competing..

    most of those venture capital loans are given to foreign countries where they start businesses like farms, they don't risk loans to organic farmers in America since the rules here are rigged to favor the rich.

    if minimum wage was exempt from taxes it would still not be enough for rent in a good area of America under a 40 hour work week, because crony capitalism drives the cost of living up where only the rich can afford the best.
     
  17. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By taking on debt.
     
  18. AmericanNationalist

    AmericanNationalist Well-Known Member

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    And if it doesn't work, the poor person is even more indebted where he lacks the financial security to take on that risk. Now, mind you most entrepreneurs did take a heavy amount of risk but in their calculus, they could afford it. The average poor person doesn't have the luxury of the same risk taking or doesn't have the financial knowledge to minimize that risk or to reap the benefits.

    Which is why my plans(partially stated here) are to overhaul the economy to make that possible. A mere tax lever isn't going to fix America's financial institutions.
     
  19. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fiat money is debt backed. If it is not backed by debt, then it is completely worthless. The debt doesn't have to be in the form of other money. It could also be in the form of goods and services. Essentially it is a marker for future labor. People who are not in debt are less likely to labor for you.
     
  20. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    thats evil, that is called debt slavery. people can labor for their own survival instead of paying off debt to the rich for survival.

    the difference is they labor for freedom to survive, instead of as a slave to the rich to survive.
     
  21. Deckel

    Deckel Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It isn't evil. It is what fiat money is backed by.
     
  22. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Liked the whole post, except for the agreeing with OP part.
    Op seems kinda naive to me.
    Somehow people have forgotten this is America...money is #1. Take it for what you will, but to be successful here that is it....Everything else is fluff. Money makes money...that's it. Sales comes second...selling your skill for example.
    Now if happiness is what you are after, that is a different story. If money makes someone happy...nothing in the last 8 years should have stopped anyone of sound mind and body.
    If financial situation is what caused anyone to vote for a republican....ever...Heh, they get lumped with the SJW's in my opinion.
    Some love it here, some hate it here in "great" America...but make no mistake...money is what America is about.

    Edit: PS. just because it is what it is..does not mean i agree with it...but, it is what it is :)
    If someone cannot put a financial gain spin on any idea...it will fail here in America.
     
  23. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Saying money is #1 is deceiving- it's a superficial observation in many ways. Yes, it takes money to do things, and a lot of money to do big things. But- having known many self-made millionaires who have accomplished awesome things, I can tell you that the driving element is success, not money. Money is sort of a way to keep score, but the thing that makes them run is accomplishment- setting goals and surpassing them. Doing that well always results in money, and money is required to do more of it.

    There are no "slave" employees. Plenty who see themselves that way- and blame their employer for not curing their attitude of despising work and the very company they do it for. When you consider that they agreed to do a job at a particular level of compensation; that they are free to leave at will, free to offer their services to anyone anywhere- Not slavery. Believing it is is like locking the door to your own prison because you give the key to someone else in your mind, and abdicate the power over your own life. Millions of people do it, and the only thing they succeed at is becoming bitter with life. Sadly- the solutions to their predicament are all around them, but they aren't prepared to listen or learn. They only want to hear confirmation of what they already believe, and their are always politicians ready to agree with them- and gain the power to manipulate them.

    Life is what we make it. Money is just a way of valuing productivity- it is neither good not evil in itself. The power to take control of your own life and achieve success in whatever way you define it requires many things- but the first is to get your butt in the drivers seat of your own life and take responsibility for how it's being run and where it's going.
     
  24. Vernan89188

    Vernan89188 Well-Known Member

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    Seems you got my point :) No disagreement here
     
  25. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    they are not free to take another job in a bad economy, most people voted for President Trump because capitalism is not working for them only the rich.

    tariffs and a huge wall will work, but won't work in a government or congress run by the rich, who have real freedom from purchasing special interest in business with lobbying.
     

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