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The NRA has figured out what ...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Phoebe Bump, Feb 28, 2013.

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  1. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Of course studies aren't going to call for political action,
    at least not public studies in the U.S., because that would be advocacy, which in the case of public research is illegal.
    And of course, the results of any study can be used to make informed political decisions. In fact, that's why we need to conduct them.
    So that we and our politicians can make informed data-driven decisions regarding relevant issues. You really are not that naive are you?

    Also, I take it that your response means that you were not able to locate any political advocacy within the study itself?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 13, 2013
    #176
  2. tomfoo13ry

    tomfoo13ry Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Who was sanctioned for what and when? I'm asking about actual enforcement of the legislation in question not some study that predates the legislation.

    “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.” Show me your examples of unjust enforcement pertaining to that.
     
    tomfoo13ry, Mar 13, 2013
    #177
  3. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    OOOOOOOOOOOOOO NRA 'backed'

    The CDC doesn't need to be running studies when the outcome is already established.
     
    LoneStrSt8, Mar 13, 2013
    #178
  4. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    And those who attempt to ban guns should be charged with reckless endangerment - endangerment of global freedom and the right to vote.
     
    Anders Hoveland, Mar 13, 2013
    #179
  5. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    The NRA has been corrupted by money... most likely.
     
    Johnny-C, Mar 13, 2013
    #180
  6. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    I surely disagree with that. Guns and violence simply ADD to mankind's existing problems.

    Reckless endangerment? How about crimes against humanity?!

    It's at least time for comprehensive background checks and registering (on every sale of firearms going forward).
     
    Johnny-C, Mar 13, 2013
    #181
  7. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Proof? None.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A study will start out with a premise then try to prove that premise. When government "decides" who the funding will go too for what study then that can be as effective as advocacy.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 13, 2013
    #182
  8. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Not true, many crazies show the signs of their illness before going off the rails and many were already seeing doctors. I have no problem not allowing someone with a mental illness to own a gun until a qualified doctor deems they are no longer a danger to themselves or others.
     
    Casper, Mar 13, 2013
    #183
  9. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    Evidence, likelihood... plentiful.
     
    Johnny-C, Mar 13, 2013
    #184
  10. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Let's see, a bar owner can tell by how many drinks he serves you whether you are drunk or not, but a gun store owner can tell how sane you are by how many guns you buy??? Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....heheheheheheheheheheh...
     
    beenthere, Mar 13, 2013
    #185
  11. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    And since physiatrist claim we are all crazy I want to have the physiatrist checked out before he can say anyone else is nuts.
     
    beenthere, Mar 13, 2013
    #186
  12. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    It is only a matter of time, before we get a handle on the gun violence. It won't stay like it is for all time.
     
    Johnny-C, Mar 13, 2013
    #187
  13. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    The legislation in question is actually a redundant reiteration of laws that were already in existence long before any of the studies we're discussing.
    The effect of how these laws are enforced is a constant and ongoing affair in which research agencies are effectively prevented from researching gun related issues so long as the threat of defunding and termination looms over them.

    The CDC, NIH, and ATF are just three departments which have been most directly affected by this.
    Laws passed in 1996 and 2009 threatened the funding of the CDC and the NIH, while a 2005 law explicitly banned the ATF
    from releasing gun-trace information, and all of this, simply because these agencies/the research they funded all
    came to conclusions and or released info that was not convenient to the NRA and its corporate backers the gun/ammo manufactures.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-20/why-does-the-nra-fear-the-truth-about-gun-violence-.html
    http://www.sunjournal.com/news/our-view/2013/01/16/congress-killed-gun-research-nras-behest/1307006
    http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/pdf/reports/giw.pdf

    Oh and by the way, I never got around to asking you; do you agree that more research is needed in this area?
    Or do you believe this issue is not important enough to warrant public research? And if you don't think its an important issue, then why not?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 14, 2013
    #188
  14. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Um....you didn't answer my question...what did you mean when you wrote, "saying the NRA 'defunded research' is stretching things...",
    has someone been saying that or did you just get confused while reading something that said something else?
    Also, what exactly do you mean with your latest comment? "The outcome is already established."? You're not really making much sense...:Z

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 14, 2013
    #189
  15. LoneStrSt8

    LoneStrSt8 New Member Past Donor

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    I'm saying it is stretching the truth....and if you can't figure out what 'the outcome is already established' we have nothing more to post to each other
     
    LoneStrSt8, Mar 14, 2013
    #190
  16. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Are you suggesting the results of the study are wrong?

    Also, you didn't answer my other questions.
    Do you agree that it is a good thing for our society and our politicians to base decisions on scientific data?

    And since you have not pointed to any advocacy within the study, does that mean that you were unable to find any?
    If all you have is that a study could potentially be used for advocacy after the fact, then I say you don't really have much at all,
    since again, that could apply to any study. But it does not mean that the study itself is advocacy,
    nor does it mean that such studies should not be conducted as we as a society yeild no gain in operating from ignorance.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 14, 2013
    #191
  17. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm asking why you posted that, since no one other than yourself ever mentioned anything close to that?

    That is a vague explanation of an already vague statement. But if you don't want me to know what it is you're talking about, I guess that is your prerogative.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 14, 2013
    #192
  18. tomfoo13ry

    tomfoo13ry Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see. So not only do you not have an example of unjust enforcement but you don't have an example of enforcement, period.
     
    tomfoo13ry, Mar 14, 2013
    #193
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Wait while I put on a pair of powerful binoculars to see where the goal posts just shifted to.........
     
    Bowerbird, Mar 14, 2013
    #194
  20. tomfoo13ry

    tomfoo13ry Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He stated that, "Its not the law I have a problem with, but the way it is unjustly enforced."...so I'm asking for examples of this unjust enforcement. He has yet to provide such. How is that moving the goalposts exactly? Are you even paying attention?
     
    tomfoo13ry, Mar 14, 2013
    #195
  21. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    And I would have thought that the steep decline in research was evidence enough
     
    Bowerbird, Mar 14, 2013
    #196
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure, guess that is why you can't find it.
     
    Hoosier8, Mar 14, 2013
    #197
  23. tomfoo13ry

    tomfoo13ry Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And you'd be wrong.
     
    tomfoo13ry, Mar 14, 2013
    #198
  24. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    BS.

    No one who isn't overly-influenced by the NRA's rhetoric is unaware of how they've manipulated public opinion over the last couple of decades.

    They are about 'money' (gun-manufacturer lobbyists, IMO). It is very easy to see. But if you choose to NOT see that, then you will surely not see it.
     
    Johnny-C, Mar 14, 2013
    #199
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    If you can't see the injustice even after I've placed it squarely in front of your face then there's really no helping that, at least not from my end.
    If you want me to expand on something though, I will if you point out the parts you don't understand. But first, I again have to ask you;
    Do you even agree that more research is needed in this area?
    Or do you believe this issue is not important enough to warrant public research? And if you don't think its an important issue, why not?

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Mar 14, 2013
    #200
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