Israeli official admits to forcing Palestinians from West Bank

Already addressed.

Nonsense; their ancestors lived there more than a thousand years, and that gave them no right to take the land from the indigenous Palestinians.

The Arabs simply conquered the land from the Byzantines and ruled over the people.

The Zionists planned and succeeded in taking the land from the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine and forming their own nation-state.

Major difference here.

And now you protest jews immigrating there based on denomination?

So what? Moroccans are not indigenous to Palestine.

Which means you agree that someone whose family was kicked out of your home over a millennium ago has the right to take your home.

I already proved that Jews in Palestine were never a sizeable community. In 1850, they were 4% of the population. As I also proved, hundreds of thousands of Ashkenazis immigrated to Palestine between 1900-1948.

Meanwhile you keeping thinking your silly opinions matter.

No (*)(*)(*)(*) nations are invented! Israelis started to exist in 1948, Americans some centuries ago, etc....

Whether they are called Palestinians or Arabs, they are the indigenous population. Get that through your skull.

 

Why? They say it in their charter and have said so in their own videos.

 

Complete and utter truth. They say they want to destroy the jewish people in their charter, and they have said in their videos they want to destroy the jewish people and after Israel, America and Europe will be conquered by islam. I have seen the videos, you haven't apparently. I have also read the charter which is disgusting. But what do you expect from people who go around dressing like the KKK with bombs strapped to their chests?

 

First many of the translations on the videos, after having been translated by MEMRI, are unreliably inaccurate. Second, the contents of the Charter, as has been regularly demonstrated on this forum, is largely irrelevant.

- - - Updated - - -

Regurgitated crap is still crap.

 

lol too bad for you my little knowledge of arabic (as crappy as it is) confirms the translations of memri videos (most of them, some are too difficult for me to understand, usually when egyptian 3amiya dialect is spoken, i also don't know much darija. msa isn't too bad most of the time) To my knowledge, they have never mistranslated, I know enough arabic to follow along with the english subtitles and I haven't seen any problems whatsoever. Neither has anyone else. I can't translate much arabic too well on my own, but again, I know enough to follow along and confirm the subtitles are correct.

In this video, Hamas PM Isma3il Haniyeh condemns the 'murder' of Bin Laden, and declares him a 'martyr' and a righteous arab and says in arabic may god have mercy upon him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF6B5C3aUJs

Well what do you say to this? The video is translated correctly. Thats the beauty of knowing even a novice level of a language, when you have enough basic vocabulary and grammar understanding, you don't need to be an expert or arabic translator to understand what is being said.

And the charter is not irrelevant. The only reason some have tried to distance themselves from it when interviewed by international journalists is because it makes them look bad, because they are. The charter itself states that the goal is to destroy the jews. Nothing can change this fact.

Besides, back to the point, Native Americans actually had their land stolen for real, yet they don't go around suicide bombing americans. And native americans have been oppressed for centuries even given infected blankets, not to mention forced explusions and other genocides committed against them.

 

The 26 year old document has no relevance in the 21st Century and even the UK establishment figure, Sir Jeremy Greenstock, agrees with me.

Forgive me, if I don't believe a partisan Islamophobe like you when it comes to the MEMRI Hasbara propaganda translations.

 

UNGA 242 IS IRRELEVANT. PERIOD!

You wish to casually ignore that the arab nations CATEGORICALLY REJECTED 242 as did Israel.

It has been COMPLETELY SUPERCEDED by events INCLUDING the Oslo accords that created the PA and regrettably saw the return of that master survivor, liar and thief, Arafat to Palestine.

 

Yes Arafat, that thief who invaded and stole a huge chunk of Israel.

 

WRONG.

242 never says Israel must fully withdraw and then the Arabs make peace.

both must happen together.

the Arabs, including Palestinians offer a comprehensive full diplomatic and economic relations, and then Israel responds. if Israel accepts, the two happen together.

 

The charter is the very essence of the group, they have never amended it. And they have blown up jewish civilians in buses and pizza shops wearing suicide vests. They are radical islamic terrorists that despise jews. And you I know both know that the english translation of that video is correct. Even arab networks put the video up.

I am not islamophobic at all. I just hate Hamas. They are terrorists. Habara lmao its the correct translation you and I both know it is since we both know some arabic. Here I'll even throw in a bone. You know more arabic than I do so you know that I am right.

تعليق اسماعيل هنية زعيم حماس على مقتل اسامة بن لادن

For the mods (I am providing transliteration and translation): The title says "ta3leeq Ismaa3eel haniyeh za3eem 7amaas 3ala maqtal usaama bin laadin" meaning in english "Remarks of Isma'il Haniyeh, leader of Hamas on the murder/killing of Osama bin Ladin".

Then he goes off into a diatribe about how he is martyr and will join other martyrs in heaven and how it was wrong to murder him etc. etc.

SO it is established fact that Hamas supports al-qaa3idah and bin ladin! These are the kind of monsters they are!

 

Despite your disingenuous attempts to make it one, this isn't a sectarian-based conflict between Jews and Muslims, rather its one whose politically-motivated roots are predicated on the quest for Palestinian justice expressed through the prism of the tactics of violence as the last straw against neoZionist intransigence.

Given that there is no internationally accepted definition of "terrorism", it's a loaded and largely subjective concept. It is also a term that is often conflated with war depending on which side of the fence one is on. Peter Ustinov, when differentiating the two often conflated concepts, eloquently put it this way: "War", he said, "is the terrorism of the rich and powerful, and terrorism is the war of the poor and powerless".

In other words, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Certainly some of the tactics used by Hamas in their campaigns I strongly disagree with and can be, in my view, counterproductive. However, like I say, they have effectively been brought to that point by the lack of any genuine will on the part of the American's and their main ME proxy to reach a peaceful solution. The notion that the U.S is somehow an honest broker is nonsense. The ball of peace is firmly in the US-Israeli court.

Ultimately, the equation is a rather simple one. No occupation=No resistance to occupation. The relatively small amounts of violence and killings of Israeli's by Hamas compared to the killings of Palestinian's by the Israeli Offence Force, would end the moment the Israeli's were to withdraw from the OT and return to the pre-67 line which they are legally obliged to do under international law. The ball is in the Israeli governments court - it's really as simple as that.

As far as the translations are concerned, many have been proven to be MEMRI-based falsifications. While some are probably accurate, that, in the scheme of things, is a red-herring anyway because - rhetorical flourishes aside - the reality on the ground, is it's the Palestinian's who are the ones who are objectively being wiped off the map. The notion that the rogue settler State which is supported to the hilt by the world's leading superpower, can EVER be allowed to be wiped off the map, is simply and utterly preposterous.

 

I respect you here for a well thought out post even though I strongly disagree obviously. We will never agree about Hamas, especially with the argument of one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter, but your post is well written. I do think the conflict is sectarian. Even the palestinians have referred to us Israeli mizrahi jews as jews, and they have said we are not arabs on several PA broadcasts. Thats infact the only statement I agree with, we are not arabs at all. We cluster genetically with Iranian Jews, caucasians, ashkenazi and sefaradic jews, and assyrians. Meaning we have northern middle eastern origins. The only jews who are arguably 'arab jews', are arab converts to judaism, and some jews from the south arabian peninsula, including some yemenites (but not all).

Which memri posts have been proven to be falsifications? I'm serious, I would like to know so as not to post them. If you give me examples, I can look them over and try my best to check the translations. Again, my arabic is pretty bad, but I understand some, enough to follow along with the subtitles. I have less trouble with standard arabic, more trouble with local dialects of egypt, the maghreb, and yes, even colloquial syrian (which includes palestinian). I take it you are fluent in arabic? I am not, but my grandparents knew judeo arabic (iraqi dialect) which is comparable to yiddish and ladino, it was even written in hebrew characters. They also knew neo-aramaic dialect. Again, I would like to know which publications are false so I will know not to use them as a source. Overall, I must say Memri is typically nothing less than stellar with their translations.

 

That's simply an extremely daft individual opinion and one which would have any professional politician laughed out of office. Still, you're entitled to it.

 

No, and I'll run it by you again, for emphasis.
1)Firstly, the Resolution reinforces the inadmissibility of gaining territory by means of war.
2)With that fresh in mind it tells the Zionists to sling their hook.
3)Only THEN does it demand regional peace.

The reason is simple. 3) cannot be achieved until 2) has been acted upon.

Shyster-proof, as I said.

 

the resolution is universally known as "land for peace" resolution and no one has ever denied the correctness of this description....until you just did of course. lol Do you seriously expect anyone to believe this nonsense about "land first" and then Arabs will see, peace or kassams or more land demands? Even arab/muslim countries don't make such absurdly outrageous claims about the resolution as you just did.

 

A clearly false statement- something of a stock-in-trade for the Israel Lobby. Read-

So your statement is an absurd nonsense. What are you going to do about it ?

 

from your link:

it is an acceptance that Israel has a right to exist, just as the Palestinians have a right to their homeland, and have a right to exist. This is the essential bargain that we are proposing. It's not a new thing, it's been going since 1967

and quite clearly the land for peace interpreation was accepted by Egypt and Jordan as your linke also demonstrates:



Land for Peace was first used as the basis for Israel's peace treaty with Egypt in 1979, where Israel withdrew from the Sinai as part of a comprehensive peace agreement facilitated by economic assistance to both sides from the United States. In 1994 a similar comprehensive agreement invoking resolution 242 formed the basis of the Israel Jordan peace treaty whereby both sides redeployed to their respective sides of the agreed international boundary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_for_peace

 

None of the above addresses your false claim. It looks like squid ink from here- and you must be really surprised to read that the author of the Resolution agrees with me. Not that I'd want to side with a prick like Lord Caradon- an absolute epitomy of an English imperialist ********.

 

You appear to have an intimate knowldge of both daft opinion. Your expertise wrt professional politicians is also rather remarkable. do you read tarot cards as well?

 

Yes, and also I Ching consultations- but for a very specialised clientele.

You can quit the personal references now and address the topic.

 

Oh? and you think "extremely daft opinion" is addressing the topic.

I've found that when one sprinkles a bit of hypocrisy over one's bowl of undeserved arrogance the result is always the same.

 

It is very easy for anyone to come in here to spill his spleen without providing any proof of the pathetic situation...
When I was out for a while I read a lot and, one thing that struck me was the following:

A collection of historical quotations relating to the Arab refugees:
Collected ~by Moshe Kohn

ON APRIL 23, 1948 Jamal Husseini, acting chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee (AHC), told the UN Security Council: "The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce ... They preferred to abandon their homes, belongings and everything they possessed."

ON SEPTEMBER 6, 1948, the Beirut Daily Telegraph quoted Emil Ghory, secretary of the AHC, as saying: "The fact that there are those refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agreed upon this policy unanimously..."

ON OCTOBER 2, 1948, the London Economist reported, in an eyewitness account of the flight of Haifa's Arabs: "There is little doubt that the most potent of the factors [in the flight] were the announcements made over the air by the Arab Higher Executive urging all Arabs in Haifa to quit ... And it was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades."

On February 19, 1949, THE JORDANIAN daily Falastin wrote : "The Arab states... encouraged the Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies."

ON JUNE 8, 1951, Habib Issa, secretary-general of the Arab League, wrote in the New York Lebanese daily al-Hoda that in 1948, Azzam Pasha, then League secretary, had "assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade ... Brotherly advice was given to the Arabs of Palestine to leave their land, homes and property, and to stay temporarily in neighboring fraternal states."

ON APRIL 9, 1953, the Jordanian daily al-Urdun quoted a refugee, Yunes Ahmed Assad, formerly of Deir Yassin, as saying: "For the flight and fall of the other villages, it is our leaders who are responsible, because of the dissemination of rumors exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs ... they instilled fear and terror into the hearts of the Arabs of Palestine until they fled, leaving their homes and property to the enemy."

ANOTHER refugee told the Jordanian daily a-Difaa on September 6, 1954: "The Arab governments told us, 'Get out so that we can get in.' So we got out, but they did not get in."

THE PRIME Minister of Syria in 1948, Khaled al-Azem, in his memoirs, published in 1973, listed what he thought were the reasons for the Arab failure in 1948: " ... the fifth factor was the call by the Arab governments to the inhabitants of Palestine to evacuate it and leave for the bordering Arab countries ... We brought destruction upon a million Arab refugees by calling on them and pleading with them to leave their land."

"FOLLOWING a visit to refugees in Gaza, a British diplomat reported the following: 'But while they express no bitterness against the Jews...they speak with the utmost bitterness of the Egyptians and other Arab states: 'We know who our enemies are,' they will say, and they are referring to their Arab brothers who, they declare, persuaded them unnecessarily to leave their homes." -

IN THE MARCH 1976 issue of Falastin a-Thaura, then the official journal of the Beirut-based PLO, Mahmud Abbas ("Abu Mazen"), PLO spokesman, wrote: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live."

British Foreign Office Document #371/75342/XC/A/4991 [From "Revising or Devising Israel's History" by Prof. Shlomo Slonim in Jewish Action, Summer 5760/2000, Vol. 60 #4]

This page was produced by Joseph E. Katz
Middle Eastern Political and Religious History Analyst
Brooklyn, New York

 

What does any of the above have to do with Israel's admission of the ethnic cleansing of West Bank areas by live fire ?

 

that's not the topic of the thread.

the topic of the thread is Israel forcing Palestinians from the West Bank, which of course isn't happeneing.

 

Sure it is. I made the OP. You really should read it - and then make daft comments.