Israeli official admits to forcing Palestinians from West Bank

Here's an early portrait of Shem , Ham and Japheth



Note they are wearing Turkish hats and Roman sandals !

 

First off ashkenazi jews aren't the only 'european jews' sefaradic jews are european jews as well. This is not an ashkenazi vs. arab thing, that paradigm makes absolutely no sense but it will always be used by anti-zionists and enemies of the Israeli people. The official language of Israel is sefaradic hebrew, the majority of Israelis are sefaradic and mizrahi.

And the culture of sefaradic jews who are also 'european' by your definition is completely alien to the arab world, ladino anyone? Religious denomination that is passed down through the father is entirely irrelevant, but since you keep making it the focus of all your posts, I repeat, sefarad and ashkenaz are both in europe, and sefaradic jews have lived in europe just as long as ashkenazic jews. Both communities were actually formed in tsarfat (france), literally right next to one another. Their genetics are nearly identical and are more related to each other than to europeans. They just developed different minhag (customs). Both originate in the middle east.

You also didn't address the 10,000 black palestinians. Why do they have a right to palestine any more than black ethiopian israelis? And if black ethiopians live in Israel, and serve in the IDF, how on earth is this an ashkenazi vs. arab thing? In this case it would have to be a black ethiopian vs. black arab palestinian thing. But that paradigm is less inflammatory so anti-zionists never use it. Well, what of it?

 

You claim Israelis are criminal but refuse to condemn Hamas and all the other terrorists as criminal. MOD EDIT - OFF TOPIC
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Go home where? To Israel? Your post just contradicted itself. Israel and Jordan both came out of the british mandate of Palestine. If you destroy Israel you would also have to destroy Jordan. And why haven't you called Arafat and the PLO 'squatters'? Ever hear of black september? Your singling out of jews is absurd.

 

This is what anti-zionists don't want you to see. It destroys their whole "ashkenazi vs. arab" paradigm.















Israel is not an apartheid state like south africa. There are black commanders in the IDF for godsake. Black ethiopian israelis have been killed by Hamas as well. Again, never talked about.

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It didn't contradict itself at all. Israeli is the pre-67 line and that's where the neoZionist expansionist land-grabbing bastards need to return to. International law demands it.

 

So let me get this straight. The arab nations war against Israel. They lose. Israel wins and takes the west bank (which was previously Jordanian) and the gaza strip (egyptian) and the golan (syrian, where they were firing rockets down from the heights at the jews), and now Israel has to give back the land to these countries? I think not. Your level of hatred for Israel is absolutely insane. If the nations you support war against Israel and they lose land, tough darts. And if they care so much about the refugees why don't they take them in the way Israel took in nearly 1,000,000 jewish refugees? They have 22 countries, not including Iran which claims to' care about the palestinains'. Thats a lot of land, if they really cared about the 'palestinians' (the definition invented by arafat and the plo after 67), why don't they take them in and end their suffering?

And Jordan itself was carved out of the britsh mandate of palestine and Jordan occupied the west bank and east jerusalem. I don't hear you calling them 'land grabbing bastards'. I don't hear you saying that Jordan is occupying 'palestine.' Jordan is just as much palestinian land as Israel is. The difference is Jordan is the palestinian arab state which is much larger btw than Israel, the palestinian jewish state.

 

International law demands Israel withdraw to the pre-67 line - end of.

 

You didn't answer my question...if they care so much about the refugees why don't they take them in the way Israel took in nearly 1,000,000 jewish refugees? They have 22 countries, not including Iran which claims to' care about the palestinains'. Thats a lot of land, if they really cared about the 'palestinians' (the definition invented by arafat and the plo after 67), why don't they take them in and end their suffering?

 

Red herring irrelevances. The bottom line is that Israel has been called upon several times by the UN Security Council to evacuate the OPT. Resolution 242 of 22 November1967 called for the “withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict”. Israel’s argument that the resolution did not require the withdrawal from all occupied territories but only from some of them, to be determined by negotiation between the parties within the context of a global peace agreement, cannot be accepted. The equally authentic French language version of the resolution states expressly that Israel must withdraw “des territoires occupés”. This clearly indicates that all the territories concerned should be evacuated.

 

1) It's their choice. There are no terms in any agreement, treaty, or law that can compel their choice or which call for punishment or ongoing occupation for any choice, in any country.
2) Lots of elected leaders support terrorists or carry out terrorist attacks, like Obama and his triple-tap drone strikes. Can we blame their entire populations and punish them?
3) People vote for leaders for all sorts of reasons, usually domestic reasons, not necessarily to support terrorists. They may not even know they are terrorists. Maybe they only voted for Hamas due to a tax policy or something like that.
4) Fatah, the other choice, was just as bad, and in fact, their reunification with Hamas in 2014 prompted Netenyahu to cancel peace talks! Would you not say the same thing if Fatah were elected instead?
5) Not all Palestinians voted for Hamas. Collective punishment is illegal.
6) Even if they voted for Hamas because they are anti-Israel or will take action against them, this is encouraged because they are being victimized by the occupation and have no other recourse to stop it. It's a problem for them, therefore a politician they think offers prospect to solve the problem would draw votes, meaning the occupation can be thanked for such motivation to vote for this reason. This goes back to my master argument, that all the things Israel complain about or use as excuses to justify continued crimes can actually be tied to their own enduring occupation as the root cause. It's like a rapist complaining about being scratched by his victim's fingernails.

Well I speak for myself, not a crowd, so here's what I say on the matter. Hamas shooting rockets into Israel is wrong. I class it as terrorism; it assaults civilians and it causes an atmosphere of intimidation and threat. I'm on the record saying this before and I'll say it again. Why don't I say it much? Because there's not people here justifying the rocket attacks.

The fact is, these rocket attacks are retaliatory attacks due to Israeli occupation. I'm not saying hatred or attacks against Israel are justified, but they are the natural, obvious, and enduring consequence of oppressing millions of people. I mean what else would you expect?

Muslim genocide against Christians has been discussed in many threads and I personally have taken part. Try doing a forum search. Christians, as far as I can tell, are the most persecuted group, but you could count Muslims too, if you count Muslim vs. Muslim sectarian persecution.

Israel are occupying the West Bank and Gaza. That's why they're called occupiers. They conquer ADDITIONAL land, and continue to, even to this day, evicting Palestinians and building their own on top. They are indeed the only country actively conquering land in this world right now, although many would cite Russia and Crimea as conquest, but otherwise, that's it.

Borders and human rights are not established by historical precedent, or race. There's a new paradigm now. It's based on international law. That's why this is not about "Jews" or "Arabs" in my opinion and I don't use these. I refer to Israel, as a nation, and the people of the occupied territories.

I'll be objective about that, and tell you my personal stance. I agree the PLO started the war in 1967. This was wrong, and it resulted in the Israeli invasion, which was justified. Israel dominated the war and killed scores more Palestinians than their own losses. The UN said that was enough, you've drawn more than enough blood, it's over, vacate the lands now and work towards a longer lasting peace agreement.

Israel never left, though agreed, and are required by law, to implement withdrawal, because that is a necessary step to peace.

That's what I'm saying... You can't complain you don't have peace while you refuse to do the one thing most important to achieve it. Do you honestly think Israel can EVER be left in peace and recognized and loved by everyone so long they keep taking more land and shooting unarmed people etc.?

So I'm seeing the same case but the other way. People blame EVERYTHING, including election results, kids throwing rocks, Arab nations decades ago attacking Israel, failure to update the Hamas Charter, Palestinians "refusing to recognize Israel as a Jewish state" (whatever this even means) and now the latest Netanyahu excuse, the reunification between Hamas and Fatah, which he used as his excuse to back out of agreement negotiations. Nobody will sit there and say this ongoing occupation has anything to do with any of it.

Millions live there. Why should they like Israel? Israel demand that not only millions of oppressed people don't so much as dare shake a fist at Israel, but also recognize them, even though they are getting constantly provoked, like with lethal shootings of unarmed protestors? Why? Why should they? Why would they?

Israel dish out abuse, and say not that they must not just take it, but they must take it AND LIKE IT! This is ridiculous.

If Israel tried leaving, opinions and hatred against them among Palestinians could only improve.

The occupation will cause hatred and retaliation. It has in the past, and it will in the future. THIS is why the obvious determination was made decades ago that withdrawal was NECESARRY for a just and lasting peace. They then claim this justifies the continued occupation. The consequence justifies the cause. Circular logic.

 

You have no answer to my first question. Secondly, why hasn't the international community demanded that Hezbollah, an iranian and syrian terrorist organization that has blown up targets around the world and is occupying lebanon be disbanded?

 

With choices come responsibilities for bad choices people and peoples make. And countries in one way or another are always penalized for bad choices they make and rewarded for good ones. Duh, do I really need to explain such basic concepts of democracy to you?

The hatred and attacks started long before the occupation, long actually before Israel's creation.

PS Israel completely left Gaza. Rocket attacks started after Israel left. The blockade started after the election of Hamas and rocket attacks.

 

I wouldn't give an inch of land back to countries that committed genocide against the jews and started wars against them, many jews agree, some don't. Thats my opinion. Why give the enemy more territory that they lost fair and square in a war that they started. They have started multiple wars against Israel. And I still don't understand why they won't take in the refugees. 22 countries, all that land. Israel took in 1,000,000 refugees and its the size of NJ. Its obvious to many including myself, that the arab and islamic world want the palestinians to suffer to make them an eye sore for the entire world. The goal is to wipe out Israel, honestly, I don't think they give a darn about the palestianian refugees, if they did, they would have done what Israel did, absorbed them into their country, or rather 22 + countries.

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Exactly! Plus Arafat rejected the deal of a lifetime, they would have got 97% of their demands! They don't want Israel to exist, they teach hate, its that simple.

 

That is withdrawal in exchange for peace and withdrawal to negotiated borders...Neither peace nor negotiations were accepted by the arab world, their response was "no peace, no recognition no negotiations" with Israel

The Israel's position was confirmed by the crafters of the resolution who freely admitted that that was its intent. T took an enormous amount of effort to come up with the mutually acceptable wording, the intent of the resolution was the negotiation of the borders, pre-1967 borders were not really borders but armistice lines and were therefore not "in stone".
It's a mute point anyway cause the Arab world rejected the resolution. Those two countries that subsequently accepted the terms of the resolution did get every single inch of their land back in exchange for ice-cold peace.

 

So what?

Ashkenazi vs Arab, or West vs Arab, same thing. The Western Jews wanted to take the land, and they took it. And they are still stealing Palestinian land.

Sefardic Jews were kicked out of Europe some 500 years ago by the Catholics. They found safety in Muslim lands, but as I showed above, the Jews in Palestine never had a sizeable community in the country, until they started immigrating from Europe in the early 20th century. They were just 4% in 1850!

Let's see, the population of the Palestinian Territories is 4.4 million. I'll be kind with you and not include the Arab Israelis. So that's 4.4m / 10,000= 0.002%! Compare that to just the Ashkenazi population in Israel, which is more than 40%.

Get real, the European and Moroccan Jews living in Israel are not indigenous to Palestine, and the last time they were in the country was 1000 years ago.

 

Classic hasbara; lies, and the demonisation of the Palestinian peoples.

The myth that Arafat was offered "the deal of a lifetime" is a common one;

Fictions About the Failure At Camp David
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/08/opinion/fictions-about-the-failure-at-camp-david.html

 

Why would I? I'm one of the few anti-Assad posters on this forum.

 

European jews and Moroccan jews have ancestors indigenous to israel/palestine and babylon. Again why do these two groups consistently cluster closest together on genetic plots? By magic? No, its because they are from the same stock and developed different customs and cultural traditions. They even look alike. Even the famous Abuhatzeira rabbinical dynasty has roots in the levant and I am not talking as far back as Moses. They aren't stealing 'palestinian' land. Ashkenazi jews lived there for centuries as well as I have already shown. Ashkenazi Jews also lived in other middle eastern countries like Egypt and Turkey. Your attempt to make either group into 'europeans' is epic fail especially after they were wiped out by the europeans during the holocaust which pan-arabs supported. Sefaradic jews were welcomed by the Ottoman empire. The ottoman empire at that time was tolerant of the jews unlike the european catholics like the spanish or portuguese. You mean to tell me that the sefaradic rabbi maimonides and the ashkenazi rabbi Rashi are not descended from the hebrews? Good luck. This is where 'anti-zionists' run into trouble. These groups go back to the middle ages, and their rabbinical dynasties trace directly back to the Israelites/Hebrews. Why else would they know hebrew and have Hebrew names like Shlomo Yitzhaki and Moshe ben Maimon? There has always been a jewish presence in palestine. Then the arabs came in their conquests and tried to claim it as theirs.

Its not west vs arab anymore than it is ethiopian vs. arab. Did ethiopians come and steal 'palestinian' land? What a joke. Israel is not a racist south african apartheid state. There are israeli citizens of all different colors and backgrounds serving in the IDF. Are arab israelis in the IDF thieves?

 

Yeah, but you know what? I don't have any problem with the existence of a new culture and country called Palestine. I just balk at it because these people were suicide bombing innocent Israeli civilians and want to see the destruction of Israel so they can have their country.

Unfortunately I'm not sure where they can go in today'[s world to form a new country because every single square inch of this world is owned by someone.

 

Once again, European and Moroccan Jews have had no presence in Palestine since they left the place more than a thousand years ago.

You are trolling. I provided all my evidence and you return with the same crap. As I showed, the population of Jews in Palestine in 1859 was 4%. I proved how the overwhelming majority of Jews who started immigrating to Palestine were European, and that non-European Jews came to the country post-1948.

You are ignoring the proof and regurgitating your opinions in large blocks of text.

 

No thats all you guys have been doing. And you haven't even taken into consideration illegal immigration to palestine, not just from jews, but from arabs. None of this is the main focus. Jews no matter what religious denomination have ancestral ties to jewish land. No matter how much you try to sever these ties you can't. Whats next? Babylonian Jews don't have ancestry there? The arabs took over palestine through conquest, by your own words. And now you protest jews immigrating there based on denomination?

Moroccan Jews are sefaradic, meaning they are european jews, their denomination evolved right next to proto-ashkenazim. Seconldy, I have already pointed out that just because these jewish groups were exiled from palestine by the romans and the babylonians does not mean that they cut of ties from their homeland. As I said before, some ashkenazi jews have lived in palestine for hundreds of years, they are middle eastern, so are sefaradic moroccan jews, famous rabbinical dynasties existed in palestine for centuries. Your blind support for the pan arabist cause will not change history. The arabs themselves said that the palestinian people were invented after 67, prior to this they were just arabs like the syrians, jordanians, lebanese, egyptians.

 

The same consequences risk/reward apply as any democracy; I'm saying there is no OUTSIDE agreement or law that gives any other foreign power and right or justification to infringe on anybody else's right for just their decision.

Besides, though Hamas won the elections, 2/3 of Palestinians did not vote for Hamas in 2006.

Some hatred will always exist.. All classes of people have their haters. But current Palestinians are a new generation, so you should take that into account. Born into occupation, hate is likely.

They didn't. They left their military there to continue oppressing. You still controlled their borders, coast, airspace, stifled the economy etc. You didn't try giving their own self-determination. In fact, they went in arresting hundreds of political prisoners prior to the election of 2006. This was before the rockets. If it were a proper withdrawal, you'd have a point.

 

There's a new paradigm now, post WWII, to abandon this previous colonial one. Conquest of land in war is no longer fair and square. Israel legally acknowledged it's "inadmissible".

You may have your opinion, but the law is otherwise.

What I'm saying is, if you want to keep the land, then you can't also claim to want peace, because giving back the land is necessary for a just and lasting peace as is the law, as Israel also agreed to. You also can't complain about people hating Israel or retaliating.

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The arab nations have continually attacked Israel in multiple wars, I wouldn't give squat back to them especially after gaza and south lebanon were 'returned'. Consider it a test run, it failed. Immediately they used these areas to fire rockets and kidnap soldiers. As I said the arab nations don't give a crap about the refugees, if they did they would absorb them. Israel absorbed 1,000 refugees into a state the size of NJ. The arabs who protest world wide have 22 countries, and their friend Iran as well which is huge and vast. Their only goal is to destroy Israel. Hamas has even stated their goal is to spread islam across the world and conquer america, england, and all of europe. You can't negotiate with scum like that. Respectfully, a proud zionist (jerusalemist).

 

MOD EDIT - OFF TOPIC Israel is detested anywhere outside of the Empire.