9 Horrifying Outcomes Of Donald Trump's Muslim Ban

Trump never said Muslims should be banned from entering the U.S. indefinitely, he only said to there should be a halt to it right now until they come up with the best way to handle it.

 

A vague requirement = indefinitely. That's what indefinitely means: without a definite end point. But even if it weren't indefinitely, should we allow a temporary suspension of the right to bear arms? A temporary suspension to freedom of speech? How about a temporary suspension to equal protection under the law: until we figure out how to fix the fact that men commit far more violent crimes than women, men will no longer have the right to a fair trial.

 

I value American lives over kissing Muslims asses. They already hate us anyways, so who gives a (*)(*)(*)(*)!!!!

 

Yeah, just like Obama , bush, Clinton , bush, Reagan , carter , your mayor, the mayor before him, the president of France, the governor of Ohio, the alderman in Compton, etc. etc. etc. ........

Are they all Hitler too?

 

Which of our country's values is violated when the government does what is necessary to reduce the risk of importation of radical islamic terrorists?

Freedom of religion seems to be an amorphous concept for leftists. There seems to be a condemnation of those who resist the importation of persons who adhere to a religion that demands murder of non-believers yet they demand that practitioners of the dominant faith in the United States cannot freely practice their own faith in the public arena.

In any case, the United States of America has NO OBLIGATION WHATEVER to accept the immigration of any person. We can refuse for any reason we want. Nothing in the Constitution requires us, as a sovereign nation, anyone from anywhere. We can use any reason we want to keep people out.

I personally want to keep them all out. With the invasion of illegal aliens and the huge immigration to the country in the last 50 years to the extent we have the largest foreign born population ever, its time for a time out so the ones who have recently come can be assimilated and become Americans. We did it in the 20's thru the 60's. Need to learn good practices from our past.

 

How many times does it need repeating there is no constitutional right for foreign nationals to immigrate to the US. The United States of America can decide the criteria. ANY reason can be used to deny a foreign national the right to come here. All the items you mention are rights attendant to citizens and legal residents of the United States of America, not foreign nationals.

 

How many times does it need repeating that this is not what I said at all?

And if we make religion one of those criteria, we are violating our commitment to inalienable rights.

All the items that I mentioned can be found in the Universal Declaration of Human rights, and they are rights that we have committed to as being inalienable, not gifts from the State.

 

It isn't necessary to violate our country's value for freedom of religion in order to reduce such risk in a reasonable fashion.

Then talk to a leftist about it.

If you really think that description applies to all Muslims, then I can't help you. We disagree about the facts.

And I haven't claimed that on this thread at any point.

Any reason that is in line with our respect for inalienable rights.

Which comes as no surprise.

I have no desire to repeat those mistakes out of a misguided attempt at extremist nationalism.

 

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American Muslims are American citizens. You're in favour of allowing all American citizens apart from American Muslim Citizens to travel to Canada? You're in favour of dropping parts of The Constitution?

What are you going to do with converts?

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You're right. He also said that American Muslims can't travel anywhere outside the US either. There goes your Constitution.

What are you going to do with converts?

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American Muslims are American citizens.

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Your Constitution! American Muslims are American citizens.

Also many of ISIS terrorists have been found to be converts to Islam.

 

Trump suggested a temporary moratorium on Muslims from other nations entering the US, until "Congress can figure out what's going on". That's not unconstitutional or even unfair. It's a matter of national security. And yes, we can do it. We can grant or not grant a visa. And we can revoke a visa. It is not a mystery or anything new. It's our country. It doesn't belong to the world.

 

There is no right to immigrate to america dude. Straw man.

 

That isn't what I argued. The straw man is yours.

 

When told only a temporary moratorium on muslim migration (non citizen) was called for, you said "should we allow a temporary suspension of the right to bear arms? A temporary suspension to freedom of speech? How about a temporary suspension to equal protection under the law: until we figure out how to fix the fact that men commit far more violent crimes than women, men will no longer have the right to a fair trial". Right to keep and bear. right to freedom of speech. right to equal protection. right to a trial by a jury of one's peers and habeas corpus and a right to not be required to incriminate oneself and to have counsel(fair trial is all of those). All rights, all compared with a temporary ban on immigration by a particular class of non-citizens.

If that's not what you mean, then what is it that you mean?

 

Yeah, he's confusing being an American citizen having constitutional claim with a non American citizen from/in another country.

 

You are extremely confused. Telling someone that they can't come here takes nothing from them. Telling you that you can't come into my home takes nothing from you. <Off-topic>

 

Telling them they can't come here because of their religion is discriminating against them based on their religion.

And that's a terrible analogy. I can kick people out of my home for burping too loudly. The US can't kick people out of the country for burping too loudly. I can ban guns from my home. That doesn't mean that we can ban guns from our country. I can forbid Christians from speaking in my home, but that doesn't mean we can forbid Christians from speaking in the US.

Comparing your home to the federal government ignores the difference between individual liberty and State authoritarianism.

 

The Supreme Court has already ruled, and rightly so, that some Constitutional apply to non-citizens. The Constitution is clear a handful of rights are for "citizens" (such as the right to vote), but that other rights belong to "people," not just citizens.

As for what I previously argued, I'll use some analogies.

"You shouldn't be denied a home loan just because you are a Christian" =/= "You have the right to a home loan"
"You shouldn't be denied lottery winnings just because you are Hindu" =/= "You have the right to win the lottery"
"You shouldn't be denied a driver license just because you are Buddhist" =/= "You have the right to a driver license"
"You shouldn't be denied residency just because you are a Muslim" =/= "You have the right to residency."

 

Actually I asked because I'm not aware of any that do.

Which Muslims allow unrestricted rights to all religious groups, which believe in the equal treatment of women, champion human rights, and support same-sex couples?

 

My neighbors, my ex inlaws, my old boss, my coworkers, etc. You lack of experience with those that do is no excuse for treating them all as if they don't.

Up until I was in college, I never met a Christian that believed in equal treatment for women. Should I have just assumed that entire time that no such Christians existed?

 

That's probably what the neighbors and coworkers in San B. thought too, right before they were attacked.

In fact, it is what they thought from reading interviews of neighbors and the guy they were renting the house from. The male islamic terrorist, who was born and raised in america, was such a good guy he always paid his rent on time. What an upstanding american. Or not.

 

And that's probably what thousands and thousands of people think about their neighbors and coworkers every day in the US . . . and they are totally right.

By that logic, I should fear all of my gun-owning neighbors and coworkers to a far greater degree. Nevermind the millions of gun owners than never hurt anyone, and nevermind the millions of American Muslims that never hurt anyone. Let's just them all by the most extreme outliers. While we're at it, let's fear all misogynists (they haven't been shy about shooting people up lately) and goth kids. And throw in all rednecks for good measure. Let's see, xenophobes and pro-lifers would have to be included as well, of course.

With all of that on the table, looks like I'll have to live in constant fear of my entire family. Should I start cancelling Christmas plans now?

A dozen or so people are going to be killed by cows this year too, is "I'll bet they thought it wouldn't happen to them, right before it happened" enough for me to live in mortal fear every time I drive through rural Texas?

 

Here's the difference.

Do any of those groups plan to kill in the name of a religion that they're not just willing to die for, they can't wait to give their lives for?

Muslims have no desire to become Americans, they want Americans to become muslim. None of the values in their religion, judged by every muslim nation in the world, are congruent with american values and beliefs.

 

The pro-lifers? Yes. As for the rest, why in the world would I be any more comforted that they are willing to kill and die for their ideology rather than their doctrinal proclamations. If a racist Christian Identity nationalist kills me for looking too Jewish, I'm not going to spend my dying breath saying "Whew, at least I'm dying because you are are a racist and not because we disagree about your belief in Jesus's consubstantial relationship with God the Father!"

Spoken like someone who has never met an American Muslim. Seriously, your home town is bound to have a mosque. Visit it some time.

I can't find anything in Christian theology that rationally jives with our values either, but they seem to manage, so I'm not going to complain.

 

Comparing some so-called abortion clinic bombers "christian terrorism" is a joke, and you know it. Some hermit living in a trailer in the woods is no comparison to people who want to crash jumbo jets into skyscrapers. When the projected number of muslim terrorists and terrorist sympathizers outnumber the entire population of the US, and when that projected number means 1 in 5 muslims are either terrorists, or support terrorist actions.

There is no comparison.

Give me an example of a Muslim majority country that has values anywhere near those of the western world.