Utah Senate Votes to Repeal 17th Amendment......

Let's just address the root of the issue - donations and lobbyists. Outlaw ALL forms of financial lobbying, strike down citizens united, and voila. No more problem.

 

That is not the issue. It is about the separation of powers, Intelligently Designed, by our Founding Fathers.

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). It's about the fact that corporate entities now have the same freedom of speech as individuals. I am highly suspicious that the founders would never declare a conglomerate of extremely rich men, some of whom (in some cases MOST of whom) may not even be citizens of this nation, can influence politics the way they do.

To deny Citizens united is one of the largest parts of the problem is to deny basic fact. To deny lobbying is an issue makes you part of the greatest scam ever pulled off - allowing private, corporate interests to BUY elections and thus public policy.

Shame on you.

 

nope. that is just your, currently, unsubstantiated opinion. it is about States' rights, and prerogatives.

 

Which was exactly what was happening in 1912, when this Amendment was passed. Standard Oil was depicted as a giant octopus, easily buying off State legislatures and then controlling their Senators.

Of course, Big Oil has completely reformed since then, in fact, we have NO big money corporations just slavering for the ability to do that kind of thing nowadays, of course not.

Tell me, do ALL conservatives own lots and lots of stock in big corporations, do none of you give any thought to anyone but the .001% in your politics?

Yep, Democracy, Republican style

.

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*), Montesquieu's balance of powers is a matter of the three branches. The only reason they divided the legislative branch against itself was as part of the compromises to give the big states more power. Understand, in 1787 the analog then for today's Big Corporations was the State Legislatures. It was only later, after Jackson and Universal Suffrage that the US became the Democratically controlled Republic we have today. This is largely what conservatives have always wanted to overturn,

The people, particularly at the state level, often tell the corporate backers to go take a hike. Repealing the 17th would give yet another layer of protection for the corporations against that

No conservative will EVER back that idea, I wonder why, just exactly what do lobbyists do that benefits most of us?

 

Blah blah, got anything of substance? Citizens United enabled vast political spending, on senators, presidents, and whoever the hell else the rich wanted to buy.

And that isn't a part of the problem?

Address this little amendment all you like - it does nothing to stop subversive influences on politicians by the super rich. Not that a gerrymandering, charlatan demagogue of the right would give a damn about that, mind you.

 

States used to choose. It is part of the Doctrine of Separation of Powers. Popular elections for the Senate remove than "arbitrage power" from the States in favor of the federal government. Now, our Senate gives the perception of being functionaries of FedGov.

 

Then we agree imagine that.

 

Removing the popular vote does nothing to protect the people. Corporations, enabled by sweeping authority granted by citizens u, will still buy "elections". Instead of an "election" they will just buy appointments, further vilifying, ostracizing and marginalizing those with unpopular ideas.

Your little game of dismissing amendments will still be an abject failure because the root problem is that money was ruled to be free speech by the likes of Scalia and other slanderous, disgusting partisans.

 

Yes, it does. It gives more control back to the States instead of the general government.

 

as opposed to special interest groups to state senators, governors, lt governors, and state representatives?

 

Giving control back to the States means senators can be hired and fired by the State.

 

and the state controlled by the very same interest groups that controlled the senator in the first place. The only thing that is being done is lengthening the strings of pulling the puppet, err I mean senator.

 

separate government. if you don't trust your politicians, don't elect them.

 

You'd better take a good look at how states divide their Congressional districts and compare them to the percentages of voters who've voted for Dem presidents. I think what you'll find is that Republicans are very good at shaping districts in their favor, so that a state that might be split 55/45 Repub/Dem somehow has a much smaller percentage of districts represented by a Dem.

 

I completely agree that Utah did the right thing. The 17th Amendment should be repealed.

 

My observation is that they are poorly informed on current events (listening to Fox News and similar right wing sources will do that to you), have been convinced that the overall news media (except for Fox et al.) lies to them every day on every issue, and an absence of a good education leaves them easy prey to be conned, even when the evidence is right in front of their eyes that show them otherwise.

 

So if they are corrupt because the people of the state elect them, then are not all elected officials corrupt? Wow this is a strange how do you do. Here is an idea, how about we start prosecuting corrupt elected officials who hold more allegiance to the highest bidder than they do their oath and the people they are supposed to represent? Sounds like a better way of sidestepping the people, once again so that corrupt officials can dictate to the people.

 

Big difference. Each state has two senators for those special interest to concentrate on and buy. Those same special interests would have to buy 150 state representatives, 80 state senators plus the governor and lt. governor.

 

Both parties do it.. Just admit it.. You will feel better.

 

Not really since the purse strings will still control at the federal level.

 

No state is going to choose a senator without any influence from special interest groups. Special interest groups will become more numerous than before. I do know that in Austin, the state capital of Texas, special interest groups dominate the leased space in the office buildings downtown at or near the capital buildings. These same special interest groups have offices also on K street, among other areas and among other states. IT is a false claim by the Tea Party to think otherwise.

 

We have fifty, State governments.

 

And that means 50 K streets with thousands of lobbyists with them.

 

these yahoos see their policies are going extinct. all this will do is remove their responsibility to the public. rwers as always take the hook, link and sinker.