A few question for the anti gun side.

Not me. I like the Polaris Slingshot (and that ban hasn't reached Hawaii yet). Heck I opposed helmet laws. *shrug* But that's the nature of a partnership. You speak your mind, cast your vote, and if you are unable to convince your partners of your position you either accept that new direction or exit the partnership.

Believing you can do otherwise is tyranny.




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Good to know. (I must have missed that clause.)




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Apparently the rest of the US disagrees with you. Pro-2A support has never been larger than it is right now.

You literally live on an island. A very small group of them that is easily controlled. The rest of us are not so lucky.

You're always welcome to spend a weekend in lovely downtown DC and see if that is congruent with your world view.

Those untrained, unregulated close to 15 million gun nuts that are armed to the teeth have a revocation rate of less than half of one percent, which is far more law-abiding than the general public, or even the police.

The only group in the united states that has attempted to enforce their individual interpretations by force of arms on the people is the government, perpetrated by those so called armed and well regulated agencies.

Bubba with his shotgun never hurt anybody that didn't try to hurt him first.

 

You live in Hawaii... The islands are a bit different than the main states. Classic cars that were manufactured without seatbelts are completely legal without any special kind of permit on the roads. The law to have seatbelts in cars was introduced in the early 80's. Any car made before then, made without a seatbelt is legal to own and drive without a special license or permit, I should know, I have 2 of them. So far in Colorado, Texas, Utah, and a few other states, it's completely legal with absolutely no issue what so ever. One of them is also smog exempt.

 

Yeah he is, because obviously it's not true in CONUS.

 

I don't like DC (or New York). Especially during summer and/or garbage strikes.

Anyway, I have no horse in the race — I don't particularly care if guns stay legal or go away. But I appreciate your conceding they're only legal now because of popular support. Because we the people want a certain type of gun to be legal, for now.

... and you have not met all the Bubbas in this nation.




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No they are not banned from roads at least here in Florida. As long as the car is older than a certain year you can drive it on the highway. The reason why the year is important is because all cars beyond that year all have seat-belts. Car makers are banned from making cars without seatbelts but cars without seatbelt aren't banned.

 

I'm pretty sure they've always been legal. Yep, since 1776 apparently.

Popular support is simply how people interpret how owning a gun is not a negative thing, it is a necessary thing. Depending where you live of course.

I've met many gun owners but of course I haven't met all, and basing belief in elimination of a right based on the lowest common denominator would mean we have to ban every dangerous item in our country.

As I've said, the 15 million people out there legally carrying are proving the "gun bubba" wrong on a daily basis. Those are facts, despite what feelings might tell you.

 

You gotta love the classics. OK. Maybe that would work for guns as well. Don't make them illegal, just make it illegal to buy, sell, or trade any made after 1776. *shrug*

No, it wouldn't get rid of all guns. But if a Saturday night special became as rare as a '57 Thunderbird... well that might be a way to reach compromise.




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You seem to think that criminals get their firearms legally. Many times in these threads has it been pointed out that only 12% of criminals get their firearms legally. So, your new random laws won't do anything. Also, just stop comparing guns to classic cars, it doesn't work on any level.

 

If guns became illegal and more rare you would have more crime, as the existing guns would be even more valuable and worth more risk. Not to mention the criminal enterprise that would spring up to supply weapons to anyone who wanted one.

Yeah I think we saw the results of what would happen during prohibition and the "war on drugs". Except it would be worse.

 

One in eight gun crimes is committed with a gun where the criminal legally purchased it? Wow... didn't think it was that high. I think guns purchased through straw men are another 15%. Not sure about other sources... guns illegally sold by legal gun distributors, guns reported lost or stolen by legal owners that ended up used by criminals... I'm not sure where to get those statistics. But it sounds like you might be able to help educate me.

How many guns used in crimes were at one time legally sold?





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Good argument for not making anything illegal.





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Do we have a good history of making things illegal and the problems stop?

 

Still makes no difference. Just because someone bought ammo is not proof that they then gave the ammo to a bad guy. Just because a bad guy points a finger at someone does not mean that they are being honest. Law enforcement would need proof of the exchange for any charge to stick. Even if it can be proved that someone bought ammo they could explain away some of the ammo missing as being used for target practice.

 

40% of firearms obtained by criminals are bought off the black market, 37% are from friends or family members getting them for them (straw purchases, a felony). The remaining 11% of criminals chose not to answer where they got their guns from. This is from FBI statistics. 73% of murders are done by repeat offenders. In 2014 (last year with complete numbers from the FBI) there were 8124 murders across the nation, that number has the "justifiable" murders in it also which includes self defense of a citizen (229), and when a cop shoots a criminal (442). So, we have to take those numbers out. So the adjusted number of murders in 2014 is actually 7453. Now, that means that 5440 murders were committed in 2014 by repeat offenders (73%), and 2012 murders were committed by someone who was not previously a criminal.​

 

... you want to do away with all laws?



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I appreciate that data. Including guns legally purchased by the criminal, his friends or family — half the guns used in crimes come from legal sales. And we don't know how many of the other half came through that channel to end up on the black market.

I'm not a supporter of banning guns. Numbers like that, they do give me pause. I wouldn't mind seeing less of them out there. These days it seems easier to get a gun than a car. Not sure that's a healthy place for us to be. *shrug*

I think those more concerned about gun violence are going to focus on removing support products rather than guns themselves. Starting with limits on clips and ammunition. I imagine it won't be long before we'll see calls for greater regulation of propellants.




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Of course not. The threat of punishment is a needed deterrent for criminal activity.

The problem is, of course, the ridiculous complexity of the law, and judging by the recidivism rate the entire "rehabilitation" theory. Our prison and legal system has turned into a joke.

Banning items such as alcohol and drugs hasn't worked out well for us, and banning guns would take us back to crime levels surpassing those of the 90's.

 

*shrug* I don't think guns are as addictive.



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*shrug* I don't see either as being as dangerous a situation as only drug dealers, cartels, and gangs being the only one's armed.

 

We could let police have guns. If guns were illegal, you could arrest an armed drug dealer without having to catch him selling drugs. You might end up with less armed drug dealers.




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Its already illegal for a drug dealer to be armed. It's illegal for anyone with a felony to have a gun.

When they are caught, they do a year or two, then are back on the streets.

There's a reason we have a 5 year 70% recidivism rate, and an 80% violent crime rate committed by gangs and other criminals. Only 20% of the violence in this country are things like police shootings, domestic violence, people going nuts, and crimes of passion.

 

It's illegal for some convicted felons to have a gun. If the gun itself is a crime, that simplifies things a bit. Sentencing issues are probably a topic for another thread.



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if you start arresting people who don't have records for merely owning guns and ruining their lives, why wouldn't they retaliate and start killing those who try to arrest them and targeting people who started such idiocy as well?

are you saying you want to make guns illegal so those who own them are jailed?

 

If we made something illegal, why wouldn't people who don't want it to be illegal not go on a murderous rampage? That you can't answer that one is a pretty good reason for not wanting you to have a gun.




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