Alec Baldwin kills one,inures another with Prop Gun on set.

Yes likely the case in most instances.

I don’t know much about him. I’ve read Adam Sandler is a good dude. I’ll have to read up on Keanu.

 

This 'famed' lawyer thinks Baldwin will be charged: https://www.foxnews.com/media/alec-baldwin-shooting-criminal-defense-lawyer-mark-geragos-charges

But, my guess is that this attorney has no idea what a strong hyperliberal bias prevails throughout all of northern New Mexico -- and nowhere more than in the area around Santa Fe and Taos.

My guess? If Alec Baldwin even sees the inside of the Santa Fe County Courthouse, they'll simply kiss his ass and then let him go.

 

I also find it very bizarre that there aren't *specific* protocols for this kind of thing. I know that movie producers are REQUIRED to have a specialist on the set whenever there is use of fire. They even have fire trucks and other mitigation options in place before they can do that.

Maybe the current procedures aren't "good enough" standards because this simply should NOT have happened. I would have assumed this issue would have been resolved after Brandon Lee's death.

 

Target practice? There could be some value in having the actors see what it is really like to fire a gun.

 

Oh I'm well aware of the divisions. They're reflected in claims like '100% of those on the left support your current open borders...'. And the surveys (facts) supporting that statistic were conducted where exactly?

Then there's 'climate matters' you disagree with the science. fine. Presumably the problems caused by lead in petrol, acid rain and the ozone hole were also all big lies as well? So ignore the science if you want, doesn't mean other people have to. After all there's no law saying they must, just like there's no law saying you have to agree with them. Biden? Well Trump also attended meetings with foreign officials that many of his fellow citizens disagreed with and took actions on the international stage they disliked. Guess what? They survived. So will you.

On Baldwin? I struggle to recall anything he may have said relating to politics, why should I remember? And it's the same thing for right wing actors. Their entitled to their opinions like everyone else (including you) and if you are allowed to express your views in an open forum (like PF) then so is Baldwin. Granted their public profiles given them a broader audience but with that also comes risk. They can and do get bet splash back when they say things people dislike. Just ask Dave Chappelle (and no I don't think his show should have been cancelled). So disagreeing with Baldwin is one thing, convicting him of a crime before the investigation is even completed? That's another. And IMO it's both unAmerican and unbecoming. So as far as I'm concerned he gets the benefit of a doubt until all the facts are in, just like you would if you were in the same situation.

On immigration all nations have the right regulate the flow of people and goods across their borders and America is not alone in struggling with this problem but those same nations including America also maintain humanitarian migration programs. Getting the balance right was and always will be the hard part, regardless of who is in office. Every former Republican and Democrat President has had to deal with migration issues and it's been that way ever since the US was founded, so nothing has really changed under Biden. Trump had to deal with it, Biden has to deal with it, so will whoever follows them. What would definitely help though is the presence of that rare creature the Compromise Unicorn (Latin Name Compromissum Unicornis) on capital hill. Legend has it that it once roamed the halls of power in DC and had the magical ability to get logs unjammed and policies implemented. These days you can barely get anyone in congress to agree on their lunch menu let alone important policy decisions. And the fault lies with both sides.

One last thing though. Those 160,000 illegal immigrants are less than .05% of the total US population and like all western nations the US birthrate is in decline, it has been for generations now and most of the illegals will end up working menial jobs Americans have shown they have no real appetite for themselves, particularity in agriculture. So should border issues be dealt with by better regulation and enforcement yes. Would I like to see the illegal inflow reduced? Also yes. Will it ever be possible to reduce it to zero? Absolutely not, anymore than you can reduce any other type of illegal activity to zero. But is the current rate of inflow a clear and present danger to the integrity of the US ? Also No.

 

Cheney is a conservative Republican tied to big business.

 

Which would be done on a proper, supervised shooting range, surely?

 

Should be

 

But did I say there were no brake pads or did you say that or did someone else? If I said brake pads I was wrong and I apologize. A lot besides brake pads can cause brakes to fail and the major way lots of people know they have a problem with their brakes is when the brakes fail

 

And I suppose that the possibility of making a life's income off one film has nothing to do with it

 

I really should remember not to start a conversation on the morning of an interstate journey. My reply:

I really enjoy coming across your posts because they are always almost always technically correct and refreshingly 90 degrees (right-angle) but then I usually facepalm a little bit because the implementation of your suggestions implicit or otherwise will never happen. Well not in our current society.

You're spot onsuggesting that I would be assiduously checking any gun before pulling the trigger. Because when I went shooting with dad he would repeat the safety stuff time and time again. So I have that heightened alertness built in whenever I pick up a gun - or get behind a car wheel. Just as you obviously do.

But I think I'm more realistic when it comes to expecting reasonable personal responsibility from the average member of society.This is why I would rather see dedicated munitions for film and theatre work, rather than expect production staff and actors to be diligent.

I suspect where we will both agree is that it is likely no serious charges result from this, despite clear criminal negligence. The actors guild will hum and haw about changing procedures, little or nothing will change and in a few years they will slip back to doing it the old way.

 

Very informative. Cheers.

 

...

 

No problem just don't use guns that will be used in the show and paint the hand grips pink or whatever.

 

I haven't read all the posts and any articles about this so I'm asking if anybody can summarize this for me.

From the little I've read, it is said that this was an accident with a prop gun but there are other comments about some of the people on the set "playing around" shooting with live ammo during breaks.

It can't be both. Does anybody now what happened or which one is spin?

 

I agree it won’t happen. A death here or there is an acceptable price to pay for these people. Like I said, people just prioritize things differently. I just can’t condone or advocate for life not being the top priority.

My problem isn’t so much with giving this dude a pass as it is with the inconsistency of expectations and application of law. If we let this guy off we have to let this woman off too.
http://www.politicalforum.com/index...er-after-accidentally-shooting-friend.592771/

And Billy Bob that takes his buddy’s gun home to clean it for him and pulls the trigger to facilitate takedown and shoots the neighbor kid because there was a round in the chamber. Not his fault. His friend told him it was unloaded…

Sure, irresponsibility is rampant. But you can’t prosecute it in some cases and blow it off in others. The more people we give a pass, the more irresponsible society becomes.

That said, yes, we could certainly decrease the odds of these occurrences by changing other procedures and protocols outside of actors safety checking weapons.

 

That's what you think constitutes "manslaughter"?

 

Its both. The crew members used the prop guns for target shooting in their free time, and someone forgot to unload them, and later one was handed to Baldwin during movie shoot/rehearsal and he was told it was "cold gun" and he pulled the trigger while practicing his role (draw, aim at camera and fire).

 

Right now the reports of the crew target practicing are unconfirmed by the DA. But there were news reports of it...

You are comparing apples and oranges here. Someone picking up a gun and thinking it is unloaded then pointing at someone and pulling the trigger should be charged. It is their responsibility to check the gun, it is negligence that they didn't. An actor given a gun by the people whose job it is too make sure the gun is safe shouldn't be charged. An actor should receive the gun from the person appointed. So long as the actor uses the gun in a way defined in the scene and by the chosen person, the actor should not be liable. And in this case all he was doing was practicing a cross draw scene. I assume he was cocking the hammer during the draw, because it is what he was going to be doing in the scene. The blame here doesn't belong with the actor, it belongs in the process used to give the actor the gun. Somewhere the chain of custody broke down and that is where the blame should lie, along with the person who actually put a live round in the gun. If the actor actually checks the gun that actor would break the chain of custody because checking the gun could be considered as tampering with it. If you want checks, double checks, and triple checks it needs to be part of the process. Blame the process here, not the actor. But again remember, Alec Baldwin is at least one of the producers, so blame my lie with him in that context.

 

I’m glad people came out pointing out that the gun is not a prop and is real, it also looks like criminal charges will be filed. The big question is on who. I hope the trigger puller gets what any other person in this situation gets. It’s taught in every gun safety course in the nation. When you handle a gun you first check that the chamber is clear and pointed in a safe direction when you test trigger function. He was the operator it will and should legally boil down to his responsibility

 

There are not many examples of this situation. Brandon Lee was killed in the same situation, but the actor was not charged, because he too was handed a gun by a person who was responsible for the safety measures at the set.

 

Baldwin is not just an actor. I believe he was a producer of this as well. That definitely adds liabilities. Wrongful death just as one. Let’s he ignored the alleged complaint about the man who was in charge of checking loaded status? He definitely could be held as negligent in that scenario. He’ll get hit with something I guarantee

 

Nope. Actors aren’t special. They have the same responsibility as anyone else paid to use a firearm. If an actor isn’t qualified to check the safety of a weapon they aren’t qualified to be pointing it at others and pulling the trigger. Also, the person or persons who are at risk of being shot should not have to trust a third party with their safety.

I am blaming the process. Outsourcing safety to a third party is stupid and is the reason this happened. This could be easily avoided by education and a little time to safety check the weapon you are using. Just like EVERYONE else in society is required to do.

 

Typically when someone dies at a movie set, they director (not producer) is held accountable, as was already shown in the examples in this thread. In the example with the train accident, the director pleaded guilty to negligent homicide, and other examples directors were charged, but acquitted. I didn't find any examples of actors being asked to do something and then held accountable when things went wrong.

 

So there are different standards for actors? Are they not required to practice Gun safety while operating a firearm like every other citizen in this country?