Am I more moral than God?

I don't know, but whether the morality expressed in a book is "good" or not is only part of what might make such a book a good moral guide. Being consistent and clear are equally as important. Neither of those accurately describe the Bible.

 

Actually the Bible is fairly consistent. It presents at least two sides for every issue. All you have to do is pick a side and there's a ton of stuff to support it.

 

You and I have very different ideas of what "consistent" means.

 

Free will does not exist with Omnipotence.

How is free will anything less than an illusion if your choices are per-determined?

Your poorly thought out apologetics leave god as either too stupid or impotent to handle his own creation. What is your point?

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Citation needed.

 

I think you really want to know what a person has to do to stay out of the lake of fire and do to get into the golden cube. The fairy tale seems to vary about what a person has to do to get into the golden cube.

 

That's like accusing me of really wanting to know how many snarks I have to skin to help the Loch Ness monster fulfill her dream of dancing with bigfoot. What I really want is for people to recognize the Bible for the middle-school-quality fiction that it is and stop pretending that it's actually some proper moral handbook.

 

Is still higher quality literature than yours.

 

Well, from a practical pov a person will be hard-pressed to find a moral person (one who might fit out current definition of being moral) in the entire Bible. But the stories do give us examples to judge our own morality by. If we study their cases and find them reprehensible are we really sure that our behavior is better than theirs?

 

As far as I am concerned the entire Old Testament is akin to a Horror Story.

AboveAlpha

 

The Book of Wisdom and the books of Sirach and Ecclesiastes contain some useful thoughts.

Judges chapter 19 is probably the most disgusting chapter in the Bible.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges+19&version=CEB

2 Maccabees chapter 7 is the best one for showing how to hang tough when things hit the fan.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Maccabees+7&version=CEB

The book of Susanna is a good courtroom drama.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Susanna+1&version=CEB

Bel and the Dragon is a good detective story.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Bel+and+the+Dragon+1&version=CEB

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure my behavior is better than that of any of the dozens of characters who killed innocent women and children.

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Oooh, good one. You really got me, there.

 

Saw a little short film once on CBN...about a murderer on death row about to be executed. Outside were a "bunch of liberals" protesting his execution (college professor, "hippie chick", "hippie guy").

The murderer "truly and honestly repented and asked Christ to be his Savior" minutes before his execution and then is executed.....and a terrorist blew up a bomb at the protest, killing the professor and the two younger "lib'ruls".

It then went to a "Waitng Room" where the Angel Michael and Satan were waiting. The murderer was granted entrance into Heaven....while the "atheist" professor and "agnostic" protestors were sent to Hell.

The point of the film was SUPPOSED to show God's mercy (for the murderer, even at his last moments) and how non-believers are supposed to not worry about "good acts, but turning to Christ"......instead, it came off as utterly AMORAL and painted God as the worst case of Cosmic "control freak" ever.

 

So nobody gets killed in a "holy and righteous nation"?

 

I have never been able to get any of the Christians here to be honest on that particular point.

It is the same with every thread I start, they avoid the question.

 

I've noticed this, you hardly ever start threads for the purpose of having a respectful discussion. You only ever start threads to be an (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) towards anyone who disagrees with you. In fact, I've been reading this for some time now, I think this thread is started in response to your attitude, specifically.

 

Too dicey....on one hand they love the idea of "cosmic justice"....a murderer getting eternally tortured in Hell after his execution (s'why most of them are pro-death penalty).

but it contradicts the Chrsitian dogma on forgiveness and repentance...even with a murderer five minutes before exectuion.

To imagine a guy can kill a dozen people....truly and honestly repent and "receive Christ"....and get let into Heaven with "good folks like us who never killed anybody".....while true to Christian belief....irritates them severely.

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I've noticed when many theists, especially self-declared Christians, get "stuck" for answers to "sticky questions"....they attack the questioner.

 

Of course. Any being which would create this reality must be horribly immoral. If there were truly a perfect and all powerful being they would never have made this universe.

Imagine how much better it would all be if no one ever had to experience anything unpleasant or die at all.

No religion ever really answers the question of why when it comes to creation. Though I don't know enough about Hinduism to say that unequivocally. Ultimately though with most Judaic religion our universe seems to be a form of entertainment for god. Even that seems a stretch though, I mean a being who already knows the past and the future in all its detail, how boring would that be?

Uhhh. Almost fell asleep thinking about it.

 

Perhaps if the same people would not use the same poor, contradictory, and paradoxical argument, you would see a different response.

Take note of our new Gnostic Christian contributor, he is well reasoned (even if I disagree with his positions).

 

The problem with believing in an omniscient omnipotent god is that he has NO EXCUSE!

You can't say "he didn't know".

And you can't say "he can't do anything about it".

If such a being does exist then this must be EXACTLY the way he wants things. Now you can talk about the free will of the rapist. But what about the free will of the person being raped? Why does your god prize the first over the second? It MUST be the way he WANTS it!

 

You show me a place that is completely and totaly "Holy and righteous" and I will show you a place where nobody gets killed.
Only one such place exists

 

Hmmmmm killing children is evil. And there is no greater evil than when good chooses to do nothing......So, in that situation, God is evil for allowing evil to happen when he could stop it.

 

I have absolutely no problem answering your question...Yes, If that death row inmate truly and whole heartedly asked for forgiveness, repented of his sin and opened his heart to the Lord, (and it would have to be true repentance, and faith), then that person would ultimately end up in heaven...if the protestors, professors or whatever outside held unrepentant sin and had no faith in the Lord then they would all spend an eternity burning in hell. I really don't see whats so complicated about it its really rather simple.

 

But if kids don't have souls why would it be evil to kill them?

 

Everything alive eventually dies.

And everything that is alive eventually becomes FOOD for some other form of life.

There is a difference between KILLING and MURDER.

Some day....if the Earth is not destroyed by a Comet or Asteroid or...etc....and if Human's are still around...we will no longer be Homo Sapiens....as we are evolving both Physically and Mentally faster than in any other time in our existence.

AboveAlpha

 

One of the most vile beliefs in existence.