American Soldiers refuse orders to attack Syria!

I disagree(You're being politically dishonest with Syrian Girl). If an active vet speaks out against the war, that gives political cover for more to speak out, as they should. Do you really want to continue a war inflationary economy at a time where several of our public school systems face a shut down?

 

Lies lies and more lies.

Hezbollah is an indigenous military group that was fighting Israeli occupation. They have proven to be tolerant of Christians and Sunnis, and they function in a secular society.

Regarding Afghan Mujahadeen

Jalaluddin Haqqani, Once CIA's 'Blue-Eyed Boy,' Now Top Scourge For U.S. In Afghanistan


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/07/haqqani-network-afghanistan_n_987762.html

The Haqqani network: Al-Qaeda’s dangerous patron

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...n-in-pakistan/2011/07/18/gIQAtWmcLI_blog.html
Haqqani Network ties with Al-Qaeda

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/1...network-with-ties-to-al-qaida-in-some-afghan/



Keep trying to convince yourself USA did not create the whole jihadi al-qaeda mess.

 

I doubt it. If it took us this long to figure it out, both sides there are probably still trying to figure out where Syria is on the map.

 

I am arguing for same thing that Arab Spring is not democracy movement. It is a muslim brotherhood uprising

I am for Secular govt in Syria, Egypt and Libya. USA does not want that

 

I don't want war. I never wanted war. When, if we go in their, more people will die. I just want to be smart about this though. If she's saying US soliders don't want to be involved, we need to be making informed decisions. A veteran might be saying that we don't want war, fine. But we need to focus in one what current soliders are saying, and how many of them are there. Not one or two, but we need percentages.

 

I guess I gotta ask "What War?" Do you think we are involved in a war with Syria? What units and divisions are involved in it? How many US troops have been killed in this war and how many of them have we killed?

I figure we have lost none and killed thousands. We are pretty good at waging war, apparently.

I guess we will get a bit sloppy when we actually drop a 500 pound bomb and kill a million civilians with it.

 

Remember when we would drop a thousand tons of bombs and only kill a stray dog in Iraq? I guess we are getting better.

 

Chin up Digger, Obama is getting Smashed as his Paradigm ,implodes.

The Historic Alliance between ,British and US Imperialism is in Tatters.The 2 biggest Mafia Gang Lords are in "Turmoil" hardly describes it .

One significant factor in the Vote against Intervention of British forces ,was the House of Lords and senior Military Figures are not as stupid as Cameron and his Idiot Mate Obama.

Only 9% of the General British Population and even less in the Working Class of Britain.They really thought that the democratic Traditions of the Working Class against Imperialist War ,would remain silent and Docile,for it is STILL the Youth of the Working Class ,that bares the scares of any Imperialist WAR!

WW1 and WW2 were both stopped by the Working Class,the SEP sections of the ICFI, www.wsws.org

Has set as its task the PREVENTION OF WW3,by the Working Class Internationally unifying!

 

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Nope. It's a long term plan. Check this out - Yinon Plan ---

http://arabnyheter.info/sv/2013/08/28/an-israel-behind-the-destruction-of-the-middle-east/


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No, they must adhere to their conscience first.

If they object to going to war for moral reasons, they should be given the right to stand down. Hiding behind signs is pretty pathetic though.

 

Total cost of the Afghanistan and Iraq Quagmires and Debacles,is currently estimated at between $4-6 TRILLION .

That new TRILLION in debt this and TRILLION in debt that ,seems all US Imperialism is good for ,Bankrupting the People of America's Hard earned and then Stolen Taxes.

Obama ,should take Note ,the American Revolutionary Tradition started over Taxes!

 

Well, that doesn't matter, really since the Chinese paid for it all, you know?

 

The Chinese and Saudis shovel money at us to fight and we just take it and use it. I suppose they would quit shoveling money at us if they didn't like it.

Do the Jews control the Chinese?

 

With the President Assassin Obama ,it is Perfectly understandable for these Revolutionary Soldiers of Democracy.

The fact of it is in Obama's appearance ,very Greying Hair.Next the Cheek line will drop,that haggard look of yesterdays man ,loser of the Political imitative!

Has to stop the $85bn a Month Capitalist Welfare scheme ,Q3,or the USA goes arse up!

And he knows it.

The tearing effect of the Domestic and Foreign .Into the grinder with him!

Here's a Tip for Nothing ,start factoring in the END of Q3,in every Economic forecast and see what you get as far as "Growth and Recovery". As far as the NYSE, well the drop will be anyones guess!

 

Anyway, we buy (*)(*)(*)(*) from the Chinese and build them up. They shovel money back to us. We buy oil from the Arabs and make them rich and they shovel money back to us. We fight their enemies and shovel some money to our slaves, the UK and Israel and we all dance for China and Arabs.

Follow the money.

The stupid (*)(*)(*)(*)ing Jews and Israel ain't giving us a dime to pay for anything and we could never afford to do (*)(*)(*)(*) on our own.

 

Those American soldiers and marines in the pictures have, without seeing it (or they are revolutionaries, because no source/link provided, can be fakes in this time were deception is used more than once), ended up in an another fight, a revolutionary fight by holding those signs collectively. So they are still fighting a war, a revolutionary political war. If other military/marines see this and follow this can end up in a small revolt inside the military. This adds up to the other revolutionary demos and events since 9/11. Only persons that are seeking for absolute power are causing revolts, because lots of smaller revolts can lead to a revolution one day. And if you look at politics you see revolutionary changes, republican and democratic parties are weakening, tea party on the rise (and has used revolutionary calls/actions/events too)
The US people have a major problem, revolutoinaries and supporters (believers, pesons that bought into the revolutionary propaganda) are trying to cause revolts since 9/11, in the police force, in politics, in the military, around guns, medicare, etc. are also creating new organisations.
One of the signs says that we have to wake up, but revolutionary actions are not a warning (cause organisation only, and many smaller organisations lead to a big one, can lead to another bad period in history), the warning that smaller revolutionary acts can lead to a revolution is the real warning (because if people can see what is going it cannot happen, because they would see a process (political or revolutionary, or organisational) appearing or growing, or happening, and can warn others not to join, vote or react or respond emotionally, because that all leads to organisation of the population more and more (and this is what you see happening since 9/11, an ongoing wave of revolts, political change, deception, propaganda, shocking news, conflict etc etc)

 

There is a big, fat old dragon in the Far East calling all the shots and they would never risk their own skin. They've learned to just throw money around and bet on Bum Fights.

 

Excuse me rust bucket economy of the Ford Production line type. Global Economy will determine everything economic that will take place in Future get used to it.

And by the Look of the Decrepit cess pit "On the Hill". definitely in need of Revolutionary Clean out!

By for and of the People!

The Assassin ,in the White House ,wants not only to go into Syria but Iran as well!

Put your Mad dog DOWN!

Impeach it as Traitor to the People!

Obama the ANTI-Democratic President. Politically, Ethically and Morally DECADENT,VENAL ,DECAY!

Counter-Revolutionary abroad and at Home.

 

For our silly UK members that can't spell and think their Queen is ten times richer than any Arab King: No, the Chinese are not Jewish.

 

And for an explanation of the Crisis Confronting every Democratically Minded American!

The Political Voice of the American Working Class.



World Socialist Web Site
wsws.org

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The war against Syria and American democracy

31 August 2013

US Secretary of State John Kerry and President Barack Obama made clear in separate statements yesterday afternoon that the rejection by the British parliament on Thursday of a pro-war motion would have no impact on the US administration’s plans to attack Syria.

In his remarks, Obama pretended that he had “not made a decision about various actions that might be taken.” The discussions in Washington, however, relate more to the tactics and timing of an attack rather than whether it will take place.

Obama also repeated the lie that the assault will be “limited” in scope. In fact, the operation contemplated by Washington is aimed at reversing the course of the US-stoked civil war in Syria, ousting Assad, and undermining the position of Iran, Russia and China in the Middle East.

As it rushes to war, the American ruling class is contemptuous of the anti-war sentiments of the vast majority of the population. More than a decade of unending war, the continuous invocation of the “war on terror,” the experiences of Afghanistan and especially the lies told to justify the invasion of Iraq—all of this has had an impact on public consciousness.

Polls show that as little as 9 percent of the American people support military strikes on Syria, rising to only 25 percent if it is proven that the Syrian regime of Bashar Al-Assad used chemical weapons—the central propaganda claim of the US and its allies.

Yet these sentiments find no expression in the political establishment and the auxiliary institutions of state power, even within the limited framework of bourgeois politics. The government and the media are solidly pro-war. The vast majority of the population—after more than a decade of endless and disastrous military operations—is against yet another attack on make-believe enemies.

The chasm that separates official opinion from the real sentiments of the mass of the people is virtually without precedent. During the Vietnam War, it is worth recalling, the political establishment was torn by divisions over the US involvement. Both political parties had significant “anti-war” factions. The congressional hearing chaired by Senator William Fulbright contributed significantly to the growth of anti-war sentiment.

In 1990-91, as the first Bush administration geared up for the first war against Iraq, it felt compelled to have an authorization vote, which passed with 48 senators voting against. Even as late as 2003 and the period following the war in Iraq, there were efforts by Democratic Party politicians to posture as critics of the second Bush administration. Kerry won the Democratic nomination in 2004 and Obama the presidency in 2008 while making a gesture, however hypocritical and insincere, to anti-war sentiment.

Now, with polls showing opposition to war even greater than in 2003, there is nothing.

The media has followed a similar course. It is not difficult to list a dozen journalistic personalities of the Vietnam era who contributed significantly to the public anti-war consciousness by exposing the lies of the government—culminating in the publication of the Pentagon Papers by the New York Times and Washington Post in 1971.

The media today functions openly as a mouthpiece of the government, seeing its central purpose as disseminating state lies and covering up for government secrets. It has been transformed through a process of corporatization, of “embedding” journalists in the military, of the purging of anyone who displayed an ounce of critical thought (e.g., CNN's firing of Peter Arnett in 2003 over his critical coverage of the Iraq invasion).

The generally authoritarian sentiment that prevails in the media today was expressed by the New York Times’ Roger Cohen in his column Friday advocating war against Syria. Popular sentiment be damned, the liberal columnist wrote. “War fatigue in the United States and Britain is not an excuse for the surrender of a commodity of enduring strategic importance—national credibility—to an ephemeral one—public opinion.”

Ten years after the war against Iraq, launched on the basis of complete fabrications, not a single major corporate-controlled newspaper or media outlet has questioned the litany of lies and unsubstantiated claims emanating from the White House.

How is this transformation to be explained? The crisis over Syria is revealing the deeper reality of political life in America. In May 2003, the WSWS noted that “the massive and blatant character of the lies upon which [the Iraq] war was based, and the indifferent and cynical response of the media, are significant manifestations of the general breakdown of bourgeois democratic norms. The political life of the United States reflects in ever more grotesque forms the increasingly oligarchic character of the American state.”

Ten years later, these tendencies have only metastasized. The corporate and financial aristocracy has utilized the crisis that began in 2008 to concentrate in its hands an even greater proportion of the nation’s wealth. Government policy is determined by the interests of the top one percent of the population.

Foreign policy is inseparably linked to domestic policy. The complete indifference of the institutions of the state to all the social concerns of the masses—poverty, unemployment, the destruction of social services—finds its natural complement in foreign policy. What the lower 90 percent income bracket thinks amounts to nothing, with the media assigned the role of attempting to manipulate this thinking with propaganda and lies.

The preservation of the forms of bourgeois democracy is incompatible with the levels of social inequality prevailing in the United States today. The vast spying apparatus revealed by Edward Snowden—the framework of a police state—is directed above all to the emergence of opposition to the demands of the ruling class for war and social counter-revolution.

There is one other significant difference between the war drive against Syria and the previous wars launched by the American ruling class. The Vietnam War provoked mass anti-war protests, and there was significant opposition organized against subsequent interventions, from Nicaragua and El Salvador to the Iraq war in 1991. Ten years ago, there were mass protests involving millions of people against the Iraq war.

Today there is nothing. This is not because popular sentiment has become pro-war. In fact, there is even less public support for action against Syria today then there was for war against Iraq. Rather, what was for a long time referred to as the “anti-war movement” was led by a section of the middle class tied to the Democratic Party. Over the past several decades, this social layer has become increasingly integrated into the political establishment, growing wealthy through the rise of the stock market, feeding off the crumbs of the financial aristocracy.

The middle class “left” responded to Iraq War protests by channeling opposition behind the Democrats and, with the advent of the Obama administration, shutting them down. They have now become the most fervent supporters of war, of “human rights” imperialism, the culmination of a process that included support for the 1999 war against Serbia. The war in Syria is very much “their war.”

This transformation makes it all the more clear that the real mass base for the fight against war is the working class. A revival of the anti-war movement is necessary, but it can develop only in opposition to the corporate and financial aristocracy and its pseudo-left appendages. The bloody catastrophe that the American ruling class is preparing for the people of Syria, the Middle East and the entire world can only be countered through the independent mobilization of the working class, in the United States and internationally, on the of the program of World Socialist Revolution.

Joseph Kishore
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Copyright © 1998-2013 World Socialist Web Site - All rights reserved













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Kranes56
Certainly we do not know who the soldiers would vote, given a vote.
The images do make a "statement".
Anyone I know who has been involved with any of these, "Not At War, Wars" would agree with their statement.
The bravery to make the statement and the statement earn my respect.
How about yours? Regardless of percentages.

Still if soldiers in World War 2 voted, how do you thing the vote would go ?
If soldiers in today's Afghanistan voted, I bet they would vote for immediate withdrawal from a senseless situation.
What do you believe Kranes56?


Moi



Moi SyrianGirl

 

That's something I actually despise really, the Israeli state has US as its proxy, not the other way around. We foot the bill to do essentially their bidding in the M.E(Pre-Israel, was the M.E ever a problem? No. Pre-hawkish Zionists, did we ever truly know terrorism?) As the Dancing Israelis indicate, quite frankly the Israeli nation secretly feels as though it doesn't matter what Americans think.

Which, frankly is sickening. We will never go back to the dark days of the past, nor could I summon such an extreme, irrational form of hatred. But I do want U.S. Neutrality from Jewish affairs. If they want the M.E to capitulate to Jewish Rule, that's their M.O not ours. Leave us the hell out of it.

 

We hardly need anyone to tell us there's a disconnect between the politicians and the hoi polloi. Something, ironically enough, many socialist countries experience as well.

I actually don't know what the media is saying on the issue, but if they are supporting the attack, it's not that they're against Assad or Syrupia per se, but rather that they're pro-Obama.

 

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Yes Americans need to wake up.

Don't you realize we would be in the same
bellicose position towards Syria and Iran if McCain
had been elected ?????

These people are acting out for Israel. Israel's interests.

Our government is Zionist occupied territory.

NO ONE will be POTUS unless he passes the Zionist acid test first.


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I truly do not see how you "connect the dots".
Would you demonstrate in so many words with references and not assumptions, not unreferenced adjectives or adverbs.

I can understand the American Revolution being a Judeo-Masonic conspiracy.
The Masons, even British royalty, found it fashionable to donate to the revolution.
Chaim Solomon a recent arrival to America from Poland and Jewish helped arrange Rothchild bank credits and sold Revolution Bonds. This was the source of funding before France, Spain and Holland joined in 1777.
So I can understand conspiracy, just not yours. Please connect the dots.

If you are unable I would like to add to your premise, please remember these words,
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED.
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

Sure you can try set up a home in the Idaho north country. Remember Ruby Ridge.
They refused assimilation. Y'see.
So sit back. You'll be happy. It is nothing like the 1953 "Invasion from Mars" style assimilation.


Moi
I never go anywhere without my foil cap !