Are Any Other Christians Out there Sick of This?

Point of fact, we are not the loving, compassionate, world-renouncing church that the early father's left behind. We talk less about caring for the poor, refrain from embracing and caring for the poor, and more about condemning them. We ignore our sin in favor of pointing out the sins of others. We have lost the Holy Spirit and the love that was Christ Jesus.

Those of us whose Christianity is focused upon sin, rather than focused upon true love which will lead you away from sin, have destroyed the words of Jesus. If we spread God's love, God's mercy, God's compassion the church will grow. When we embrace sin--ours or others--and forget our hearts, we turn people away from Christ.

This is not an age where you can scare people anywhere, you can only hold out your hand as a brother.

 

I would answer you that there are secular solutions and there are religious ones. When you speak from the perspective of a Christian to tell others what to do or how to live you are treading in dangerous territory.

I am imperfect. Many things I say and do, I know are contrary to the teachings of Jesus, and therefore I don't bring my religious morality into the debate to taint Christianity. In those times I speak for myself. That's all I want other Christians to do.

Speak for themselves.

 

Blackrook and I are Catholics. You are not. I am speaking to HIM in context of OUR faith. Your argument doesn't apply to the post.

 

Blackrook, the church is losing members all over the world because of sexual abuse scandals that are an abomination upon the Body of Christ.

 

Don't like those pushy Christians, huh? So are you "pushing" decriminalizing drug use and prostitution?

 

Do you have comment about the thread at all or are you just trolling?

 

The church(es) are losing members because we are losing sight of the fact that spirituality is the rule, not materiality. Sexual abuse is a small part of it. Every time we materialize worship, we drive people away from churches.

 

Your expression of love is appreciated.

I've tried to give you many things to help you with what you wrote in the original post.

 

I would agree that materialism is antithetical to religion, but specifically the Catholic Church's problem is how we handled the sex abuse scandal.

 

No, the church is losing members because the public face of Christianity in this country are the evangelical Republicans and the evangelical movement in general, the ones who insist on creationism in the guise of intelligent design be taught in classrooms, the ones who want to ban Harry Potter books, the ones who fight against marriage equality, the ones who want to decide for everyone else what is right/moral and what is not. The sex abuse scandals have certainly not helped either, but I see that as more of a problem with the church leadership than with the evangelical movement.

What I've seen Zosiasmom talking about here was what I've always considered to be the best parts of Christianity(even though I'm pretty much an atheist). Leading by example, doing good works in the world, helping those who need it the most. If THAT was the public face of Christianity in this country, then they probably wouldn't be losing as many members, if not outright gaining them.

 

I wasn't being unloving, but I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. Accept my apology?

But back on topic, as a Christian (I will assume you are if you are answering), do you feel that we are representing Christ fairly?

 

No it isn't. You just think you know that it is.

There is far more out here in the world than your intellect's knowledge of religion.
Atheists are slightly correct about religion. True religion, the religion of love, the religion of spirituality, was Jesus' religion. Fooling around with limited beliefs that almost every religion today fools around with, are the most despicable insults to the message of Jesus.

The sex abuse scandal is terrible, granted. But the Catholic church is losing members for MAINLY the same reason other churches are. You don't like to hear that, because you treatment of God is part of the problem.

God is known within. Every rosary bead, every prayer rug declares that God is known without. THAT is what is losing people. Jesus PROVED that God exists. Most of today's churches do not offer that proof of healing. But Jesus commanded that we do the works he did. Squeezing beads is not what he did. Healing the sick is what he did. If your thought is as spiritual as it can be, you WILL heal the sick, and PROVE that God is Love and in charge.

Worshipping God materially is higher than the atheist, but it does NOT attain to what Jesus was telling us to do. Human beings realize this down deep, and are leaving the churches because of it.

 

I was raised Catholic, still attend Mass because there really isn't a church out there for someone like me...I could force myself on indigenous peoples, I suppose. They probably wouldn't like it, tho.

 

God forgives you, and as God's image and likeness I forgive you. Never be concerned whether I forgive you or not. I do my best to see you and all as God's perfect image, as the Bible says in the first creation (Genesis 1). If I argue, I argue against the idea that man is NOT God's perfect image.

We are not representing the Christ correctly. We are trying though.

 

Be loving mom, and you are, and the way will be pointed out. And do one more thing, which very, very few people know to do, but I believe you can know it.

Listen. God is ALWAYS speaking to you. Not as a human voice, but as right ideas.
And as his perfect child (Gen 1:26) you know which of the ideas which occur to you are right ideas, and which are lies and coming from human mind. But you must be quiet, and you must rule materiality and material beliefs out of thought, to the best of your ability. God speaks in silence; still, small voice.

Jesus used the word 'watch'. "What I say unto you, I say unto all, watch."

P.S. there is nothing wrong with attending Mass. One would want to realize to avoid the materiality of it, is all. And there's lots, I know. I've attended quite a few masses. The Word of God is present at Mass (it's everywhere, for that matter, isn't it? ), but just don't let too much belief in wafers, crucifixes, robes and kneeling get in the way of KNOWING, and listening for right ideas.

If Mass was the only church that existed right now, I would probably go myself, just for to give and feel support. But even a church is material. The TRUE church is the church where Jesus worshipped daily, hourly- the God-given temple of thought listening to God and the right ideas He gives us as our daily bread.

 

I agree with that part, not with the other. I think some are not trying at all.

 

Fantastic post, and every word true.

 

Friggin' AWESOME. I agree with pretty much everything you just said. It's precisely that at kind of nonsense that has led to my basically leaving the church, even though I still feel connected at some level.

Now you have me in the griping mood. What I hate is when people use Christianity to market themselves for business. Here in TX we have a Christian Brothers Automotive Repair, who claim they won't compromise their Christian beliefs. Others put the little fish thingy on business cards, yellow pages ads, etc. I think using God and Chrisitianity to further business interests is disgusting, maybe it's just me.

Now since you're griping, I am going to lay my gripe on you.

 

The whole issue of defending things and objects that have no real bearing on the soul, and not being good to your fellow man, is the basis almost all conflict.

The perfect prayer and timed ordinance to be seen of men, does not cure the sick.

Who is a Prophet, whose orders to pray this way or that out of spite, are to be obeyed, does not get a little girl's cat out of a tree.

Whether a book is the perfect word of God, does not feed the poor.

Putting a "-" in G-d, does not save anyone.

Whether Gay marriage is a sin, does not get an old lady across a street. The thing (Book or Prophet) says, but the sin is the fruit loop virus that promiscuous behavior of lust spreads, not the idea that it is better to marry. One must judge what is sin; for it may be a greater sin to say don't touch, when you know they will touch, don't kill, when it kills them, don't spread a fruit loop virus, when you reject the restrictive tools of marriage.

The age of scaring people never ends when the thing or object, which distracts from doing good, is to be defended to the detriment of our freedom to choose true love and denigrate the sin of idols (prophets, priests, books, church, temple, Kaaba); that thing of such importance worthy of conflagration could exist or not exist on a billion planets in a billion separate galaxies; the morality or word of God remains the same. The sin is in putting the idols above God's will and that of true love.

 

We're all trying mom. That's why God loves us all. He doesn't make the mistake of seeing anyone as imperfect, let us not make that mistake either.

It's the bad behavior, not the child.

 

I am not saying this is what you are saying here, but here is how a non christain reads this statement.


Mans laws should match gods laws. AKA, trying to make all of gods laws legally binding, even upon those who do not believe them. That you shuold be allowed to pass laws upon the general public at large for no other reason than "God says so" ( for example in regards to homosexuality )

Again, I am not saying that this is what you are saying here. I am simply telling you how a non christian reads this statement.

 

The magnitude of my agreement with this post is so great that it can't be measured by modern science.

 

Anyway, Zosiasmom, your priest is basically saying that until this world is perfect, he's going to take a pass on doing his job in telling people what's right and wrong. That's pastoral malpractice, and if he were a doctor he could be sued.

 

You are Catholic, are you not?

If I cannot judge the acts of others, then how do I know what a sin is at all?

Are we not called by Christ to show our brothers the moral, natural laws and ways? God's ways? Did not Jesus kick out those in the Temple, Himself? Did Christ not in that instance, judge the acts of those men in the Temple?

 

Well, you have just realized the problem with the Carholic Church here in America. The priest and even the deacons, will not speak to what is right or wrong for fear of offending.

Our own Deacon said to us in our adult group that we can't judge others acts. So I piped up and said that isn't the correct teaching. If I can't judge the acts of another, then how do We know what is or isn't a sin? Is there sin at all at that point? There is a difference b/w judging an act and judging a soul. We are called by Christ to preach his gospel, which hate to say it, speaks of judging acts so others might see the Truth. Acts are judged all day everyday, from murder to stealing, to adultery, on down the list. What is the 10 Commandments if not stating acts we are not to condone.